1911 Durbar

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1911 Durbar

Postby chrisp » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:27 am

Hi, my grandfather was at the 1911 durbar, as yet I can't find any information on which regiments where there, he was in the 2nd Bettallion and drum major, he then went to france in 1914 and was in the first battle of Mons

His service number for WW1 was 9523 it is said that he joined in 1905 and was wounded and discharged in 1916

Regards

Chris Perkins
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Postby LarsA » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:32 am

On the site of the manchesters (thoselast two words written together and then a dot and org) there is a list of regiments taking part, after the internetadress with the usual prefices, type a slash and then DelhiDurbar1911 dot again and xls.

/Lars
In memory of
17239 R J Washington MM, TEM, 2nd & 8th btn WWI
7852 W Russell, 2nd & 9th btn WWI
J Davies, 1st btn WWII, POW at Tobruk
4197291 Pte F Sheridan, POW France 1940
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Postby scully » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:23 pm

Hi Chris,

The link Lars is refferring to is below:
www.themanchesters.org/DelhiDurbar1911.xls

It was the 4th Battalion Worcestershire Regiment. Below is an extract from the 4th Battalion section on this website:

"In November 1911 the accession of the King-Emperor (King George V who was crowned in England in June 1910) and his Consort was proclaimed in his presence at the great Durbar, which inaugurated the new capital at Delhi. The 4th Battalion from Bareilly were included in the massive force of the British Army, which assembled at Delhi for the parade. (this was on the 14th December 1911)

That was destined to be the last occasion on which the Army in India was to stage a great parade in the old-time glories of full dress, and the 4th Battalion Worcestershire made a brave show—closed ranks of scarlet, white and gold glittering against the dull green of the flanking battalion of Gurkhas, as the massed Brigades tramped past the saluting base before their King."

Regards,

Louis
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1911 Durbar

Postby chrisp » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:56 am

Hi, many thanks, this does help, my granfather was obiously in the 4th, then transfered or transfered into the 2nd at the outset of WW1.

was this common?

also is there a list of all members of the Regiment in India

Thanks again

Chris Perkins
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Pte. John Perkins

Postby Mike Jones » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:40 am

Hello Chris,
Your Grandfather did join in 1905, almost the same time as my Grandfather. Both men ended up at Barielly, India in 1911, when the Dehli Durbar was on. I dont think my G-father was actually at the Durbar. As I understand it, only a representative few men of the 4th Battalion went. I have only come across two men who were definitely there. I suspect that your G-Father followed the same course as mine. Their seven year "Regular" period ended in 1912-13. They went on the reserve list and were recalled in 1914. My grandfather also ended up in the 2nd Battalion. This was the Bn. that needed men most at the time. The 4th Bn. was by now in Burma and did not need anyone. That is almost certainly how come he changed Bn.'s.. Pte. John Perkins was also awarded a Silver War Badge when he was discharged in 1916. The Regimental Archives at Norton Barracks have much more information on him there, from the List that goes with the medal. Good as this website is, they are the ones with all the documents and Photos. We are "Unofficial".
Regards Mike
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Post 1911 Durbar

Postby chrisp » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:05 pm

Hi, It seems that he may have followed the same path, Did they all join the same Territorial Unit, if so does anyone know where and which one, this may explain the photos I have of him with a regimental band, he is a Drum Major and Staff Sargent, which was puzzling me as he was a private in both the 4th & 2nd, I was begining to thing I was looking at a photo of one of his brothers who Died in Belgium and is on the Mons memorial.
The Museum Has a photo of a drummer "Perkins" taken in 1907 in Malta so he was on his way out to India, so what did he do for Two years from joining in 1905

Regards

Chris Perkins
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Your Grandfather

Postby Mike Jones » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:26 am

Morning Chris,
Your Grandfather, nor mine were ever Territorial soldiers. They were both "Regular" Soldiers. There are big differences between the two types of men. Which there is no point in going into here. There must be a mix up in the photos as your grandfather Pte. John Perkins 9523 was a Private in the 1914 Star list. He was discharged from the army in 1916 and the rank given was still Private. His Silver War badge was awarded in July 1918 and his rank was still given as .... .

With regard to the photo of him taken in Malta in 1907. He was not passing through, he was stationed there from June 1906 to Nov 1908.

I know it would be a long journey from your home in Devon but your Grandfather's name is written in gold in Worcester Cathedral. He is listed with honour on the Embarkation Roll of the 2nd Bn. in August 1914. This is a list of the very first men sent to France to stem the German advance in Belgium and France. Your Grandfather is entry 878 and mine is entry 781. There are 1203 men listed.
Regards Mike
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Postby chrisp » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:52 am

Many thanks for your reply, It is interesting to know obout the inscription at Worcester, I may call in there one day in passing, although I live in Devon my family are in Staffordshire, so we do pass Worcester a few times a year.

As for Granddad, when they came back from India what did they do? my understanding was they went into the reserve, which to me was the terry's, if it wasn't the terries then what was it?

As for the photo's we have looked at these and I am struggling with the time line of them, some time ago a chap in a military medals and surplus shop Identified them as 2nd Btn, now this is now incorect, and myself being an RAF chap and not Army I dont know how to ident the uniforms from differing regiments, he initially looked at the putties and said he was in the 2nd.

Now comes the $64000 question, how can I identify the uniform, the photos are on this site but as low res for the internet.

Regards

Chris Perkins
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Postby LarsA » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:29 pm

"went into reserve" means that their contracted period serving fulltime in the battalion was over. They could now seek civilian employment, but they were obligated to rejoin the Regiment in case they were needed. While in reserve, they drew reserve pay and could also be recalled for 12 days training each year. Were they recalled, they went into regular battalions of the Regiment.

A territorial never served full time in times of peace. They trained on weekends or evenings and summer camp. They were not liable to serve overseas (though most volunteered to do so after the outbreak).
/Lars
In memory of
17239 R J Washington MM, TEM, 2nd & 8th btn WWI
7852 W Russell, 2nd & 9th btn WWI
J Davies, 1st btn WWII, POW at Tobruk
4197291 Pte F Sheridan, POW France 1940
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Location: South Sweden

Postby Mike Jones » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:46 am

Morning Chris,
I did type out a long reply to you last week but it all got re-jected and I got de-jected. Trying a new system now, as advised by my “Svengali” Lars.
He is right regarding the Territorials. They met at least once a week, some weekends and an annual camp, much as our Territorials do now. They also had a different numbering system, so it was easy to pick them out. The differences go on and on. No point in going further as your Grandfather was a Regular who was on reserve.
The photo you have of a Drum-Major cant be your G.Father. He was a Private in 1905 and 1907 in Malta. On the Embarkation List 1914 he was a Private.When discharged in 1916, his Silver War Badge still lists him as Private. My knowledge of uniforms is zero. However it does ring a bell about the Puttees. Some Battalions did have deliberately different ways to wear the same articles of uniform. I have a mate who knows of this , I will try him. In the meantime contact Regimental Archives at Norton Barracks, one of their experts will know the answer. By the way have you contacted them about Pte. Perkins Silver War Badge yet? I have a bit more information on fotos, will talk it over in next posting.
Regards Mike
P.S Thank you Lars, it did work !
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Embarcation Roll Worcester Cathedral

Postby chrisp » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:27 pm

Hi Mike, I have at last visited Worcester this week-end and have found the embarcation roll for the 2nd & 3rd Bet, they were in a large cabinet with opening doors with the listings of all the officers then Nco's then other ranks and behind the doors is the standard, I did take some photos of the cabinet and some of the other ranks with my grandfather on and the list of Nco's and officers.

If you want a copy of the photos I can send it to you on your own e-mail if you want

Regards

Chris
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Postby scully » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:15 pm

Hi Chris,

If you would like to send copies of the photos to this website you can email them to me the webmaster at:
webmaster@worcestershireregiment.com

Best regards,

Louis (webmaster)
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Re: 1911 Durbar

Postby Crystal » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:55 pm

Hi to all
I am interested in the Delhi Durbar 1911. My Grandfather George Davis, regimental No: 4881, 4th Bat. Worcestershire Regt. was in Bareilly with the 4th. My Grandfather George Davis was also at the Boer War with the 2nd Bat. Worcestershire Regt. and was wounded at the Orange Free State and received a Queens South Africa Medal, still in possession of our family. He was later in Barbados,where a daughter was born, then Malta where another daughter and a son were born, then a son born in England and my father Edward William Davis was born in Bareilly, India, Apr 1912. My Grandfather later went to France with the 4th and was wounded at Gallipoli. I believe that my Grandfather George Davis was at the Delhi Durbar is there a list where I can find out if he was there? If not how can I get this information? Crystal
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Re: 1911 Durbar

Postby corona » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:46 pm

Hi Crystal,
Your Grandfather is not recorded on the medal roll as having been awarded the DELHI DURBAR MEDAL for 1911.
2 were award to the 2nd Battalion and 116 to the 4th Battalion of the Worcestershire Regiment.
Regards ,
corona
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Re: 1911 Durbar

Postby Crystal » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:59 am

Hi Corono,
Thank you for your reply. Yes I could not find him on the medals awarded either. Does that mean he was not there? As I understood not everyone got a medal at the Durbar.
Also is there a way of finding what ship the family went back to the UK on? I am member of Ancestry but haven't found them yet. I have found his wife in 1905 on her way to Bermuda. Crystal
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