George Henry Butt

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George Henry Butt

Postby stephenbutt » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:56 pm

Hello. Just joined as my father would like to find out more about his father's military service. We know he enlisted on 7 July 1908 and was discharged on 7 June 1916, the cause being 'Sickness'. He served in the 7th Batallion.

On his discharge form against Action Taken' is written LisT.T.L/69. Please could someone explain what this means? Also, under Cause of Discharge is written 'Para 392 X01. K.R.'

Four years after his discharge he married my grandmother in Weston-super-Mare, although his family home was Claines in Worcester. Am I right in thinking that he could have been billeted in Weston at the time of his discharge. If so, does anyone know the physical location of the barracks or camp where he would have stayed?

Lots of questions. Thank you for a remarkable and richly helpful website.

Best wishes

Stephen Butt
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Re: George Henry farming

Postby Mike Jones » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:59 am

Hello Stephen,
Welcome to Louis Scully's website. Many people do not know that this website does NOT belong to the Worcestershire Regiment nor is it run by them.
Your grandfather's Regimental Number was 74. The List/T.L. 69 is the reference number to find his actual Silver War Badge entry at the National Archives. It is also on Ancestry for free.
His cause of discharge is actually Paragraph 392 of Kings Regulations, subsection XVi (16 to you and me) . That regulation covers reasons for discharge and sub-section 16 says "No longer physically fit for war service". According to his medal card he never served abroad.
Regards Mike
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Re: George Henry Butt

Postby stephenbutt » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:06 am

Mike

Thank you. The handwriting on the photocopy I have is very indistinct so it was difficult without knowledge of the subject to decipher some of the letters. Yes, we have a difficult surname for American-based software!

We know my grandfather was 25 when he enlisted. In fact, he enlisted just three days after his 25th birthday. Is there any significance in that age which I am missing?

As I mentioned, he married my grandmother four years after his discharge (in Weston-super-Mare where I think the 7th Batallion had been billeted in 1916). His marriage certificate states that he is a widower but we know nothing about his first marriage. I assume that his first wife died before he enlisted. Perhaps he felt that military service might be a way of starting afresh.

If anyone has any information to add - just general comments about what I have written - we would be most grateful. Family history is obviously about dates (the 'when') but we want to understand more about the 'why'. For instance, was there a particular military reason why he might have enlisted in 1908? I cannot think of any specific conflict, campaign or military threat in that year.

Best wishes and thank you again.

Stephen
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:47 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, U.K.

Re: George Henry Butt

Postby corona » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:33 pm

Hi Stephen,
If your Grandfather was still living at home in Worcester, when he enlisted in 1908 ,then in all probability it would have been into the 8th Batt.
This was a territorial battalion of the Worcesters who tended to recruit from the south and east of the county.He would have transfered to the 3/7th,
who were for a time in W S M, prior to his medical discharge in WW1.
On the 1911 Census he was a boarder, working as warehouse man,at the home of the Burgess family of 70 Kingston Rd. Southville Bristol.
He married Beatrice Burgess in Bristol in1913.She died in late December1918 and there were no children as far as could tell.
I hope I have found the right George Henry Butt and provided you with some new details to explore!
Regards,
corona
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Re: George Henry Butt

Postby stephenbutt » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:25 am

Hi Corona

Thank you. I did not expect anyone to go to the trouble of searching the 1901 Census, etc., on my behalf, so your information is much appreciated.

Southville in Bristol is certainly a location mentioned by my father as having a family association, and in the 1930s my grandfather worked for WD & HO Wills - whose factories were located in Southville. So it seems fairly certain that you have definitely got the right man.

Just one further question - which is about military service. The inscription on his medals reads: Number 87136 Private G H Butt RAMC. Could he have served in both the Worcesters and the RAMC? We do know that he was later a first aider at Wills.

Thank you again and best wishes

Stephen
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Location: Gloucestershire, U.K.

Re: George Henry Butt

Postby corona » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:32 pm

Hi Stephen,
A second MIC exist for PTE. G H BUTT 87136 RAMC. No Service or Pension appear to have survived WW11bombing.
He was award the War and Victory medals for military service outside the U K in WW1.
There are many examples of men rejoining the armed forces after they previously been discharged.(This includes a medical discharge)
Regards,
corona
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Re: George Henry Butt

Postby Mike Jones » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:34 am

Hi Stephen,
I did not see his service in the Army Medical Corps coming. That was a twist I did not expect. I do not have many RAMC records but a quick glance at Numbers and I think that Regimental number went out in late 1916. Usually when a man changes from one regiment to another it is listed on his Medal Index Card. There were about 206 men who went from the Worcesters to the RAMC. Look at the MIC of Louis Ingram 71981 in Worcesters, he got 131563 in RAMC. All listed on his MIC. Percy Izzard 15731 became RAMC 135605. It lists all three regiments of John Johnson 65082 Worcesters. So it is a bit unusual for the two Medal cards not to be linked. As Corona says your G/Father must have served abroad to get the two medals listed. Though maybe not in a field of conflict. He could have got those two medals by serving in India. To be sure you will have to go to Kew and check the Medal Rolls. They are not on line yet.
With regard to him joining the Worcesters in 1908. It was nothing to do with his age or family circumstances. He was a founder member of the Territorial Army. The British Army was reorganised in the early 1900's. The Militia was disbanded and it became the Territorial Army and George must have been a member of the Militia. I say that as the army then and now runs on seniority. To get a Regimental number as low as 74 George must have been an existing Militiaman.
Regards Mike
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Re: George Henry Butt

Postby stephenbutt » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:49 pm

Hi Mike

Thank you. This is very helpful and incredibly interesting. I am passing on all this information to my father (aged 86 years) who will be really fascinated. I gather that George Henry rarely spoke about his military service. Ironically, the house where he and his wife were living in Bristol received a direct hit in WW2. My grandfather was dug out of the rubble and sustained an injury to his arm which meant he could not use it, though he disguised it very well.

I was a child of 10 when I last accompanied him on a walk. He was a charming, positive and good-natured man whom, even at that young age, I respected immensely.

Best wishes

Stephen
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Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:47 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, U.K.

Re: George Henry Butt

Postby stephenbutt » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:30 pm

I would just add that my father (who lives some distance from me) says he is delighted with the information you have helped me to find regarding his father.

He said that very little of the past was spoken about when he was a boy. Just fleeting comments which he never fully understood the significance of until now.

He says he wished his father had told him more about his military service, which gave me the opportunity to say exactly the same! My father served in the Welsh Guards during WW2, and I have always asked him to tell me about his experiences. he has now agreed to write them down.

Best wishes

Stephen
stephenbutt
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:47 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, U.K.


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