Help with 10th Battalion Worcester Regiment please ?

[Nancy]

Hello list ,
I'm a newcomer to this forum having discovered it just recently - and as i have an interest in the subject of the Worcester Regiment and could do with some assistance with the subject i'm hoping you might be able to help please . I'm trying to research the WW1 army details of my late uncle WILLIAM HOWELL ( Reg no 15645 RDC no 48289 ) who served in the 10th Battalion Worcester Regiment . His attestation papers show he enlisted (aged nearly 33yrs) on the 5th Sep 1914 in Gloucester but i believe my uncle was wounded and subsequently discharged on the 3rd Dec 1917 - he later died in 1952 in Gloucester .
According to the details on his Medal Index Card , he was awarded the Victory , British and Star Medals as well as a SWB list which i gather means "Silver War Badge "?

Can anyone please enlighten me as to the theatre of War in which his Regiment served as i only have "France " stated on his Medal Card .
I understand a great many WW1 papers were sadly destroyed during WW2 but i would love to be able to find out anything further about his service record or perhaps learn more about the 10th Battallion during this period . Would it be possible to discover how/where he may have been wounded for instance ?
I am a penshioner myself and am unable to travel to Archives etc and so any help /information however small would be most appreciated .
Kind Regards
Nancy ( formally Howell)

[scully]

Hi Nancy,

I have just added more information to the website about the actions of the 10th Battalion from August to December 1917. You will find it under 10th BATTALION or you can click on the link below:

ERROR://www.worcestershireregiment.com/w ... inc/bat_10

Regards,

Louis

[Nancy]

Hi Louis ,

Thanks so much for you reply and latest updates to the website - most informative and such a help i'm sure for all researching the Worcester Reg . In fact i had only seen the website the other day which lead me to the forum so your latest installment must cover the period when my Uncle William Howell was most likely injured - you are doing a fantastic work there with the site.
I gather William was a Private - do you know if records were kept of soldiers injuries and when & where they were wounded ?
Your help is much appreciated ,
Kind regards
Nancy

[scully]

Hi Nancy,

I found some more information for you as I have found his Attestation papers:

I found 2 different copies of his Short Service papers (Attestation) both dated and signed on the 5th September 1914 at Gloucester. On both papers he has entered his age as 32 years 9 months. On both papers his trade (occupation) at the time was stated as Fitter & Turner. He also stated that he had been an Apprentice at Mr. Walkers (the rest is difficult to read but looks like "Ladbrook Mor......."
On the first paper his army number is 15645 but this is crossed out and 62223 written above it - It also shows the Corps (Regiment) as Worcestershire but this was also crossed out and Devon Regiment written above it.
The second copy of the Short Service papers (Attestation) shows the army number as 15645 but again this is crossed out and the number 62223 written above but again this is also crossed out and the number 48289 written above - this time the Corps (Regiment) is clearly marked as just the Worcestershire Regiment.

The strange thing about the two papers is that the handwriting used to fill in the form was different on each copy - However the signature of William Howell was the same on both copies (so someone else must have filled it in and he just signed them).

Hope this helps.

For his medical records you may have to try the National Archives at Kew.

Best regards,

Louis

[Nancy]

Hi Louis ,
Thanks very much for your help with 10th Battalion Worcester's -re William Howell , very much appreciated .
Yes the double reference for William in the Attestation papers is very strange - clearly the two entries are the same man but can't figure out the reason ? Anyway the Reg no. for the Worcester's ties in with the Medal Card entry ... incidentally i notice also on the Medal Index Card below his 10th Batt. Worc. Regiment no.etc are the initials "R.D.C" "Pte" and "48289 "- does this mean that he was also in another Regiment ?
Also in the "Remarks" space is a word which is not clear but looks like
"Dispara " ( or Disfara ?) and numbers "392(xvi)"
3/12/17 ( which i take to be a date ?)
I thought the word was "Discharge"but i just wondered if anybody might recognise what this could be in case i'm wrong and it could refer to something else .
I will look into the possibility of wounding/medical records at the Archives etc .
Many thanks for your help again ,
Kind Regards
Nancy

[Mike Jones]

Hello Nancy,
the word on the Medal Index Card is indeed "Discharged". Just to make it difficult to read they shorten it a bit and scribble it. The next bit is a shortened form of "Kings Regulation 392". Which covers reasons for discharge and subsection XVi (16 in its Arabic form) says "No longer physically fit for war service". He was indeed transferred to the Royal Defense Corps. I think it was they who discharged him with his Silver War Badge. His Medal Index Card will tell us if that is the case. What are the reference numbers after the word "List" in the bottom left hand corner? You are right 3-12-17 is the date of his discharge. The paperwork that goes with the award of the S.W.B. has some very good information on it. This information is at the National Archives in Kew but is not available on Line. You have to go to Kew to get it. The Worcestershire Regimental Archives (By months of work and enterprise) do have their own copies of most of their own men. They do have to make a small charge for this S.W.B. service. At the moment though, we dont know if William got his S.W.B. from the Worcesters or the R.D.C.
Regards Mike

[Nancy]

Hello Mike ,
Thanks very much indeed for your reply and very helpful information , which is very much appreciated .
Hopefully with the help of the folks on this forum i'm starting to get a clearer picture of what the detail means .
Regarding the SWB list information on the Medal Card for William Howell -
his Medal information reads as follows -
Medal Role Page
Victory TP/102 13/2 79
British - " - -"- ( not sure what this means ?)
15 Star TP/36c/3 209

SWB List TP/2049

If this information means the SWB was given to him by the Worcester Reg - it might be better for me as it would be difficult for me to get to the National Archives myself . Do the Worcestershire Reg Archives have a website - or contact address ? If it appears the SWB was awarded by the RDC - do you perhaps know if they have any Archives or resources for ex servicemen ?
Thanks again for your time & trouble ,
Kind regards
Nancy

[Mike Jones]

Hi Nancy,
bad news I am afraid, none of those medals were authorised by the Worcesters. If they were , they would have begun L/102B *******. The S.W.B. would have begun L/A/****. I dont know who TP are. The dots and dashes beside the British medal simply mean "Ditto". That is the same details as the entry above. We can hope Justices comes in to help you, he has contacts in other forums and other regiments. There is a link to Worcestershire Regiment Archives from the home page of this website. Give them a go and see what they can come up with.
Regards Mike

[Nancy]

Hi Mike ,

Thanks for your further help with this and all the information - you've got me intrigued now by the mystery "TP" given on the Medal Card .
I'm obviously new to this forum so not quite up to speed on how exactly things work but do you think i should post a new message specifically asking about the Medal Card details (TP etc ) or will this thread be sufficient ?
Thanks for putting me on to the Worcester Reg Archives i will definitely give them a try .
Kind Regards ,
Nancy

[scully]

Hi Nancy,

More information for you on Private William Howell (15645).

Joined the Worcestershire Regiment at Tidworth on the 9th Sept. 1914. Joined the 10th Battalion Worcestershire Regiment.

Based at Home (UK) from 5th September 1914 to 18th July 1915.

With the British Experditionary Force in France from 19th July 1915 to 10th January 1916.

Returned Home (UK) on 11th January 1916.

Stationed at Depot. Sutton Coldfield from 17th June 1916

Kimmel Park Camp 10th October 1916

Posted to the 6th Battalion Worcestershire Regiment on the 23rd April 1917.

Transferred to the Devonshire Regiment (15th Battalion) on the 23rd April 1917 and his number changed to 62223.

Transferred to the Royal Defence Corp. on the 4th August 1917. His number changed again to 48289. Posted to the 5th Battalion Royal Defence Corp. on the 18th August 1917.

He was discharged from the Royal Defence Corp. 5th battalion on the 3rd December 1917 due to disability (Gun shot wound to back right forearm).

If you would like me to post you copies of the original documents with more details then send me an email with your address and I will post them to you.

Regards,

Louis (webmaster)

[Nancy]

Hi Louis ,

Thanks very much for your email and the further details on my uncle William Howell , much appreciated . I think it matches the Pension information from the Ancestry WW1 records - i only just came across this information myself the other day - previously they only had his Attestation Paper - i reckon they must have been added to on the site just recently as i'm sure they were not there in full when i'd earlier looked .
However you have any additional source information i would be very interested & extremely glad to receive it .
Thanks again for your time & help with this .
Kind regards,
Nancy