Victor Arthur Barker, 40640, 4th Worc

[debit]

Hi Everyone
I am new to this list and this is my first posting, so I hope someone can help. I have a Great Uncle, Victor Arthur Barker, born Devonport, Devon, who was in the 4th Worc. According to the Medal Roll he was originally in the Royal Warwick Regiment, Number 26932 and at some point transferred to the 4th Worc. According to Soldiers Died, he enlisted in Weymouth. I have a copy of the Medal Index Card which doesn't state when he joined up. He was killed 23 April 1917 during the Battle of Arras and his name is on the Arras Memorial at the Faubourg d'Amiens Cemetery, France. Apart from that I don't know much more about him. I have searched for his service record but I believe it was one of the ones destroyed during WWII. I have a few questions that someone may be able to help with.
1. Is there any other avenue for finding a copy of his service record?
2. If I can't get a copy of his service record, is there any other way to find out when he enlisted?
3. Would his service record have had a photograph of him? I do have pictures of some of the 4th Worc, but don't know what Victor looks like, so I am a bit stumped.
4. I have read on a website somewhere that the 1st to 4th Battalions of the Worcestershires were regular army, and read in a book that Regiments in general had 2 regular army Battalions (1st & 2nd) and that the 3rd and 4th Battalions were usually reservists. Can someone please advise which is correct.

I am originally from the UK and will be visiting the UK and France fairly soon and will eventually be able to see Victors name on the memorial and pay my respects, so would love to find out more about him before I go. If there is any chance that someone out there knows anything about him, I will be forever in their debt.

Best wishes to anyone who has read this.

[scully]

Hi Debbie,

In answer to your 4th question about the battalions:

In 1900 the 3rd (Militia) Battalion and the 4th (Militia) Battalion , originally known as the 1st Battalion and 2nd Battalion of the old Worcestershire Militia until 1881, were renumbered the 5th Battalion and 6th Battalion due to the fact that new Regular Battalions were raised for fighting in the Boer War. These new Regular Battalions were numbered the 3rd and 4th Battalions Worcestershire Regiment.

The Boer war had resulted in the addition to the Regiment of these two new Regular battalions. The struggle had taxed to the utmost the military resources of Great Britain, and nearly every existing Regular unit in the country had been sent overseas. Many countries in Europe had shown unmistakeable sympathy with the Boer Republics, and fear of European complications led to an increase of the forces at home. It was decided to raise additional Regular battalions, and that those additional battalions should be formed by such Regiments as had populous recruiting areas. Consequent on that decision, several Regiments of the Line were ordered to raise third and fourth battalions; and the Worcestershire Regiment was among those selected for that increase of estab¬lishment.

The two new Battalions of the Regiment were formed at Aldershot in February 1900. After some eighteen months of preliminary work and training, the 4th Worcestershire were selected to go overseas to the Bermudas, where the Battalion was employed in guarding Boer prisoners. There the 4th Worcestershire received their Colours from the hands of the Governor, Sir Henry Geary. Later, the Battalion moved to the West Indies and was split up in detachments at Jamaica, St. Lucia and Barbadoes until the end of 1905, when the British garrison was withdrawn from those islands and the 4th Worcestershire were carried back across the Atlantic and down the Straits to Malta.

Trust the above helps your understanding.

Regards,

Louis

[scully]

He Debbie,

Victor Arthur Barker enlisted in to the army at Weymouth.

The 1901 Census shows him living with his parents and bothers and sisters - details below:
1901 Census Reference: RG13/2106 folio 115 page 6
Living at 39 York Street, Devonport.
Frederick John Barker - age 37 - Head - occupation: Iron Caulker - born at Gosport
Mary Barker - age 33 - wife - born at Devonport
Frederick Victor Barker - age 14 - son - born at Devonport
Winifred M. Barker - age 12 - daughter - born at Devonport
Victor Arthur Barker - age 9 - son - born at Devonport
Norena Barker - age 4 - daughter -born at Devonport
Myra Barker - age 2 - daughter - born at Devonport

Regards,

Louis

[Kevin Lynott]

Debbie,
some details of the 4th Bn action on that day:-
The 23/4/17 was the opening day of the second Battle of the Scarpe. At 4:45am on the 23/4/17 the 4th Worcs started their attack towards Infantry Hill which was about 1000 yards east of Monchy le Preux. The German front line in front of the hill was easily crossed. Although the 4th Worcs reached their object, the failure of the 15th Division to gain the right flank left the 4th Worcs in a dangerous postion. The Germans shelled the 4th Worcs postion and at 10am the German counter-attack came in. With no support the 4th Worcs were eventually overwhelmed by the Germans at 4pm. Desperate hand to hand fighting ensued and many of the Worcester men were killed or wounded. At the start of the 4th Worcs attack their battle strength was 17 officers and 520 other ranks, only 2 officers and 64 men marched back on the 24/4/17.

Kevin

[Mike Jones]

Hello Debbie,
welcome to the forum. I did check on Ancestry and there is no sign of Victor's army service record. There is NO other source of these complete records, unfortunately. As you probably know the German Air force destroyed most of them. You can however find out when he enlisted by other means. You will have to get on the net and put in "Great War Forum". Put in a query asking for Royal Warwickshire help. Had he joined the Worcesters and got a number such as 26932, this was issued in January 1915. I think it will be a similar timeline for the Warwicks.
When Victor came to the Worcesters, he was drafted in with 60 other Royal Warwicks men. Their numbers ran from 40584 to 40644. I will do a little more searching and put a date on the drafting. The block of numbers he was in was for "In the field Transfers". So he was already in France when he got Drafted into the Worcesters. Probably at a place called Etaples. Service records never contained a photo, only a very accurate description. This was so they could find a man if he deserted. The 4th Battalion was a normal fighting battalion from day one of the war.
When you visit the Arras Memorial, you may also wish to visit one of Victor's mates buried nearby. The memorial is in the Faubourg D' Amiens Cemetery. Buried in the cemetery is another of the men drafted in with Victor, Pte. William West 40635. He died the day before Victor. Of the 81 men killed the same day as Victor (23.04.1917), 69 are on the Arras memorial. The other 12 are buried in 5 different cemeteries
Regards Mike

[debit]

Hi Everyone
I would like to say a great big THANKS to all of you who replied. You have given me some great information to work on. Also, to Mike - I look foward to hearing from you again, if you can sort out that drafting date, that is.

Thanks again, everyone, it is much appreciated.

Best wishes
Debbie

[Mike Jones]

Hi Debbie,
Victor was drafted into the Worcestershire Regiment between 21st September 1916 and Late January 1917. I go for January 1917.
I saw your post on the GWF. You did not get the date of enlistment. Wait a while till the post slips from their memory and then try again. Next time go in easier. Just ask when Victor joined the Warwicks, dont mention the Worcesters. Too many questions at one go confuses the main issue and a lot of the specialists wont even come in.
Regards Mike

[debit]

Hi Mike
Thanks for the further information on when Victor was drafted. It's really appreciated. You obviously have access or have had access to information with regards to the 4th Worc. Can I ask how you know about Victor's draft? Only reason I'm asking, is that I would like to put a note in with my records as to where the information was sourced. Hope that is OK. Also, I will do as you say and wait a while with regards his enlistment date. With your help and others, I am gradually putting together a picture of Victor and his life in the army. As I said in my first posting, we will be visiting his memorial this year and I feel privileged to be able to have the chance to pay my respects to a man that I never knew but am beginning to know. And, thank you for mentioning William West, the friend of Victor who died on 22nd. We will also spare some time to visit his grave. No doubt, as I discover more information with regards to Victor, I will have further questions and will post again.
Best wishes
Debbie

[Mike Jones]

Hi Debbie,
I know about Victor's Draft because of 18 years of research and the 10 Data-bases I have built up. The first one I started, many years ago (Still rekon on another 2 years to finish it) has amongst many things, details about the drafts in it. One of the first patterns I noted was that men drafted in were in certain blocks of numbers. Victor sits in the first such sequence. I know that just before Victor's draft arrived, a draft arrived from the Berkshire Yeomanry on 21st Sept. 1916. The first man to die in Victor's draft was L/Cpl Beaman 40605. He died on 15th Feb 1917. So the draft has to be between these dates.
I know that on another Forum you were told Victor was reported wounded as a Warwickshire Soldier in January 1917 and that the wounding itself was probably 1 week before the report. So how could he be a Worcester soldier in the same month? Wounding of a soldier and the report appearing in the paper, was never normally within 7 days ! One of my smaller Data-bases covers this very subject. I studied in detail, definite incidents and then checked when they appeared in the paper. I have only so far done 1914 and the paper was the Worcester Herald. The average delay was 66 days! I did not include any reports of a delay of more than 100 days in this figure. One man, Pte Cox 8882 was reported Wounded and missing on 16th October 1915. He was Killed in Action on 21st October 1914. The delay was 360 days. I have many similar long delays.
Hope this helps Mike.