2nd Battalion Drafts (Gheluvelt Roll in mind)

[Trick]

Thanks Peter.

Do you think he was there?
I've just got a BWM to confirmed charger 11345 PTE Albert Henry Jones. He died of wounds on 17/11/14 as a prisoner in Germany. Is it likely he was wounded and captured at Gheluvelt?

When I was doing some searching I came across one of your posts from 2006 regarding the 1964 Gheluvelt Survivors Badge/medal. I have one. A very rare item I believe.

Rich.

(Still looking for Chantler medals).

[peter]

Hi Rich,

Pte. 10982 C. Robbins was at Gheluvelt.

I don't know how many Gheluvelt medals were issued in 1964, it would be interesting find out.

Regards

Peter

[Trick]

Hello Peter, back again!

I have medals and plaque to 9434 Pte (L/cpl on CWGC), John Harris. He went to France 12/08/14 but returned time expired in September only to go back soon after. I can't track down this gap but know he was KIA 26/09/1915 and commemorated on Loos Memorial. Do you think he was at Gheluvelt? I have also purchased a large amount of 'Firm' magazines and am working my way through the obituaries. (They belonged to Major E J Bate MBE). There are a few men I have found who claim to be there, but not on the list. I will get them to you at some point soon.

Regards, Rich.

(Still searching for Chantler medals).

[peter]

Hi Rich,

That's a coindence I'm in the process of going throuth the files with the surnames starting with the letter H and yesterday and today its Harris.

No he was not at Gheluvelt. He was home (returned to England SS Asturais? 31.8.14, Colic) from 1-9-14 till 10-11-14.

CWGC details (additional information) son of J. R. Freeman but J. R. was his half brother James. His mother (Mary Ann) re-married (Benjamin Freeman, Dec. Q.1886) after his father John died (aged 23, 1883). His mother died in 1899 aged 38 and Benjamin died in 1949 aged 90.

Two 14 Star Rolls for John one with name crossed out and in pencil Star returned and scrapped (with correct date he died 26.9.15 KiA) second Star Roll with the day and month correct but year 1916 (died).

Many claims for men being at Gheluvelt in obituaries in 'Firm' so always check.

He is commemorated on the Cinderford War Memorial and Cinderford Bapist Church War Memorial (In sacred memory of young men from ths Church and Sunday School who fell in the Great War 1914-18).

Regards

Peter

[Glyde]

Peter,
Hope you are in good health and had a Good Xmas and wish you a Happy New Year.
Could L/CPL Fred Dean, 10723 be at Gheluvelt? Wounded, report date 29 November, 1914?
Had an eventful war, wounded again in mid 1916 and POW on 27 May, 1918 with the 3rd Battalion. Died young in 1939 aged 52.
Regards,
David

[peter]

Hi David.

Happy New Year to you (lets hope it's better than 2021).

Do you have any futher information on Fred Dean (apart from PoW and wounded reports)? How do you know he died in 1939? (could be the reason I can't find him on 1939 Register).

I'm looking again at the information I have on him and doing a little more research so will get back to you soon.

Regards

Peter

[Glyde]

Peter,

All I have found so far is;
born 26 April, 1887.
baptised 12 June, 1887 St Martin, Brighouse, Father Thomas Richard, Mother Ada.
Married Hilda Wood, 10 July, 1920, Halifax.
1891 census Belle Vue Terrace, Brighouse, just the 3 of the.
1901 census 261, Bradford Road, Brighouse.
1911 census 2nd Battalion Jhansi, India employed as Clerk, born Yorkshire.
died Q3 1939 Calder, Yorkshire. Ties in with Hilda listed as a widow in 1939 census.

Regards,

David

[peter]

David,

I've looked at the information I have on Fred Dean again and the reason I wanted to check him was because I have him down as unsure (being at Gheluvelt on 31.10.14). The reason for this is that I have a wounded report for a F. Dean (paper unknown, date 9.9.14) as follows

Lance-Cpl F. Dean (shot in the muscle of right arm) and Pte Price (gunshot in the knee) were the first 2 Worcester men to return from the Front, both had been wounded during the fighting at Mons.

However I now believe this F. Dean to be L/Cpl. 9901 Frederick Dean 3rd Bn. Wounded list from 'The Graphic' dated 14.9.14 names him (admissions of wounded) being in the Royal Victoria Hospital, Netley, reported under date 29th August. (Pte. Price being Pte. 7219 Alfred Prce).

Now the wounded report for Pte. 10723 Fred Dean (dated 16th January 1915) reported under date 29th November 1914 says previously reported missing and now reported wounded and not missing. So if there is a printed newspaper report stating him missing what was the date it appeared? This would confirm one way or the other if he was present at Gheluvelt. He rejoined (5th Bn) February 1915.

I will still have him down as unsure until I am certain (as can be) he was at Gheluvelt.

Without the service papers we have to piece togther information from what is available and with Fred Dean there was very little but his PoW record held a vital key that opened a few more doors (his date and place of birth). From this we were able to find his parents and 1891 and 1901 census records. The 1911 census gave his age and the fact he was single at that time. You had a little more information on him in that I did not have a marriage or date of death so that has helped fill in a bit more information to his file.

Sorry I can't be more positive regards Gheluvelt but will keep you informed if I find another report regards him being missing and hopefully confirm him as being a Gheluvelt survivor.

Regards

Peter

[Glyde]

Peter,

Thank you for that.
On reading your reference to the newspaper report, I checked the papers that came with the medals.
The Dealer I purchased the trio from also informed me of the following "Pte Dean was reported wounded in action from the Base BEF 29 November, 1914, reported in The Birmingham Daily Post 15 January, 1915 page 3. The Evesham Standard and West Midland Observer 20 February, 1915 page 7 report he was admitted to 4th Northern General Hospital 31 January, 1915".
I do not have access to these newspapers do you? They might throw some light on the "missing". I hadn't come across this reference before and it seems neither had the Dealer.

Regards,

David

[peter]

David,

In the past I have used the Hive in Worcester and Central Library Birmingham for newspaper reports (many hours spent at both).

TheGenealogist site does have wounded, missing etc. in their military section. I have done a search for F. Dean (1914 - 1915) and got results for missing 1914 (2) 1915 (1) and wounded 1914 (2) 1915 (9) and 1 gas poisoning (not your man). This is for F. Dean so only a few could be for 10723 F. Dean (they don't give service number so until you open the record you don't know if its the person your after, this for searching when not a member not sure how it works when a full member). Another site I tried was Forces War Records and this site does give service number so I know that 10723 Worcestershire Regiment F. Dean shows 5 results for Fred, 1914 (1) 1916 (2) and 1918 (2).

I would have thought that the dealer you had the medals from knowing of the newspaper reports would have had copies with the trio (as part of deal).

Regards

Peter

[Glyde]

Peter,

The Hive in Worcester will have to be my next stop. I'll try sometime this Spring.

The Dealer only supplied me with a military summary, he didn't receive copies of the newspapers. Though he said the person he bought them from was "sure" he was at Gheluvelt. Though I didn't pay a premium for this. Just a possible, though I thought there was a good chance he was there.

As you know there was another Frederick Dean so I'll try and isolate which was which with the reports.

Once again thank you for your help, if i find anything else I will let you know.

Regards,

David

[peter]

Hi Rich
Do you have a obit (in Firm) for Lieut. Cyril Charles Lilley who died 25 Jan 1951.

Regards

Peter

[Trick]

Hi Peter.

Thanks for the information on Harris. Thought he was back at home but there was always a chance.
Can't help with the obituary, sorry. The 50's are my sketchiest period of Firm.

Regards, Rich.

(Still looking for Chantler medals).

[peter]

Thanks for checking Rich.
Regards
Peter

[Glyde]

Peter,
OBIT for Lt Cyril Charles Lilley.
Looked in July and October 1951 but not there.
I don't have April 1951 and only 1952 is October, which again doesn't mention him.
If I come across April 1951 or the other 1952's I'll have a look.
Regards,
David
(not right place but wanted you to see!)