pte Ernest Hobson

[Mike Jones]

Morning Pippa,
Which Archives did you apply to for information? That page number definitely exists at The National Archives. It should confim which Battalion Ernest was in. This will in turn make or break his story. I have to say that I have seen many examples of the story told does not quite match historical fact. In many cases, such as Ernest's, I think it was changed to help their mind cope with what they saw and did. There are Prisoner of War records held by the International Red Cross in Gerneva. For an example of what you can get put "Connor" in the search box at the top of the page. Up will come a bit of reading but you will see a typical reply. It will show when and where he was captured and all the camps he was in. The bad news is that they make a charge for this information (I have edited this comment as I have just found out that for next of kin no charge applies). Do you have access to Ernest's medals? I would to know which regiment is stamped around the outer edge please.
Regards Mike

[pippa]

Hi Mike,
Spent ages replying to you but message did not upload , will try again later Pippa

[LarsA]

?="pippa"? both co -oberate dads version, adament.
He wasn,t supposed to be there he,d done his tour and should have gone home on leave, but someone went on compassionate leave so he had to stay. He was in the dardanelles and they were forward of the line in a pill box clearing it out, a message came through that they were about to be overrun and they had to make there own way back to lines, the lad behind grandad pushed past him and was shot as he went outside the germans came in and rounded the rest of them up. He was taken to germany. How it all fits together i don't know but he i supposed to have returned home found his girlfriend expecting not his and have rejoined and gone into the worcesters at that point ending up in Ireland in the Black and Tans. I have told them it doesn't seem to follow getting knowhere fast. At some point he was shot in the hand. ?/?

Pippa, I think the information above fits very well with being at Gallipoli Farm in Ypres. Pillboxes and germans do no fit very well with the Dardanelles. After POW-camp and the war ending, he may have been up for a discharge, but managed to stay in due to the reasons you state. It would be easy for someone listening to a person saying "I was taken POW at a place called Gallipoli" to understand it as the the Dardanelles. Also, people coming out alive from a horrible experience sometimes find them lucky and downplay it, like "Lucky the turks didn't get me" In 1915 at the Dardanelles, most of the missing after a raid were not POWs but dead.

Just guesses, hope you find out more about his service records. Have someone tried applying to the military authorities for his file, it might not be released if he served on after the war? As Mike has stated, the first stop I think be to find out at National Archives which battalion(s) he served in.

Kind regards,
Lars

[pippa]

Hi Lars and Mike,
I used the national archives on line on a wo- something 29 -3163 but maybe i did it wrong they said they would look again for a standard fee.
I did an e-form to the red cross yesterday, dad found his pow photos dated 1916! of him and other nationalities. We blew the picture up and was able to get his sewn on number 109752 or 3 so we were able to give that also. There was a photo of him with about 12 others in a photo taken by a HF Hanson in Mansfield in uniform some with cap badges on but we didn't recognise them. will upload this then carry on. Pippa

[pippa]

Back,
Another photo was from an italian called Ricardo he appears also in the pow photo, this is a cartalino postal with a photo of Ricardo and son in uniform and just says best wishes then the signature is faint.
Some one has found an Ernest in the Bradford RoH that fills his description and who joined 9- 3-1917 . They are asking for information on the 9th Worcesters and the Dunster force who fought around Baku. Does this mean any thing to you. One of the photos is dated 12-3-1923 and is of Ernest in uniform it must be a leaving photo, is it possible that his records may still be with the MOD due to the date he left the army. Pippa

[Mike Jones]

Evening Pippa,
I have been made aware of your postings on the Great War Forum. No problem with that and what a lot of people you have interested in your quest. Everyone wants to help but some confusing information coming in. If I have anymore trouble posting here, I shall temporarily switch to that forum. I still maintain Ernest NEVER went to Turkey. The nearest he came to Gallipoli was the attack on Gallipoli FARM, Belgium. The only spanner in the works, for me, are those photos dated 1916. Who dated them? Is it an ink stamp or handwritten by Ernest? Since his medals are impressed West Riding Regt, he left England with them. I will bet money he got Re-badged at Etaples (France) to the 2-7th Worcesters and got captured later in Belgium. Pill Boxes and Germans just do not fit with Gallipoli. well the Gallipoli in Turkey anyway. The Germans were only in Turkey as advisors and observers. They never fought as a unit in any Dardanelles action. The flooding of a Pill box in a place so dry does not sound to likely either ! I have never heard of ANY prisoner taken in Turkey ever ending up in Germany. That is three statements you could put to task on the Great War Forum. Please ask the men there if those statements are right. I am after all here to learn myself. Bit more later, worried about the re-cycle bin !
Regards Mike

[Mike Jones]

Evening again Pippa,
I did not get rejected that time, progress ! I am afraid Ernest's story is full of "mistakes" for me. I have explained why I think the story is a bit mixed up and I fully sympathise with Ernest's motives. I have checked the Worcestershire Medal Rolls and there is only ONE Ernest Hobson in them. There are only ten Hobsons of all initials, the only other E. Hobson is an Edward and the number is all wrong. Of the 19 men that died in Ernest's Draft (To the Worcesters) ALL are buried in Western Europe. Basically I am sure none of the whole draft ever went to Turkey, Macedonia etc.

You seem determined to find the truth and I am sure it is out there. I am now very intrigued myself. I have recently solved a similar mystery that I started more than two years ago. So never give up. Firm evidence will come from that Worcester Medal Roll entry and the Red Cross. Another line of attack is to check with the Worcestershire Regimental Archives at Norton Barracks. ALL men that stayed in the Worcestershire Regiment after 1919 got renumbered ! The Regiment went from Regimental numbers to "Unique" Army numbers. Those re-numbering ledgers are at the archives in Norton. I have seen them. If Ernest stayed in the Worcesters till 1923 he will be there. The entry for each man is quite a long one. Please bear in mind a donation is always welcomed by the Archives. All money goes to the upkeep of the very archives we ALL so badly need.
Regards Mike

[pippa]

Hi MikE, My posting problem seems to have cured now too. Yes we seem to have quite the mystery. Its the red herrings that have thrown the trail.
They have explained to me about the medals that even if Ernest joined the West Riding and only did one day before being re badged the new regiment would still issue them stamped with the first regiment they went overseas with hence his medals been issued by the Worcesters and having WRR stamped on them. They didn't feel like making it too simple for future researchers. I, m not sure how the the photo is dated i should be seeing my family on the 7th and will see them then the plan is that i will try and upload onto the forum for every one to view and see what they think .I am also hoping to upload the Giesson camp book he was given as it has pictures of the different nationalities churches, the hospital ,work huts etc that i have not seen on line before . hope fully they may add further intregue. with regards Pippa

[mmm45]

Hi
Ive been helping Pippa out with this at Bradford library.
The Roll of Honour lists Ernest Hobson as 9th Worcesters with an enlistment date of March 1917.

I have in my research got a number of Worcester lads POW with the 10th Batt in March 1918 with very similar West Ridings Numbers and Worcester numbers.

The POW bit is throwing me with the Turkish bit now after finding 9th Batt on the roll could he have served with Dunster Force against the Turks?
(Sorry for any spanners in the works!!)

All the best

Ady

[scully]

Hi Pippa,

Can you upload the photos to me by email as you can not add them in the forum. The email address is:
webmaster@worcestershireregiment.com

I can add them on the website in the PHOTOS section if you send them. This way other people can see and may be able to help.

Regards,

Louis (webmaster)

[pippa]

Hi , I will most certainly do my best , i won't get my hands on them till the 7th when dad comes down. I have said in the past that they should really go to a museum but its sentiment really. I can remember grandad going through the book with us and teaching us to count in german from a very young age and we shouldn't mention the bullets he had in the drawer . Pippa

[Mike Jones]

Morning Pippa,
I have thrown out all my Agatha Christie books, this mystery beats them all ! Did Ernest ever go to Turkey? I still say no. If I have egg on my face at the end of this, so be it but I don't think I will have. What facts do we know of Ernest's military carrer? At the moment very Few. 1. He was in the West Riding Regiment as 205028, not sure when he joined but probably around March 1917. So not actually a known fact yet. 2. He did leave England as a West Riding Man. 3. Very soon after this he was re-badged as 235145 Worcestershire Regiment in FRANCE. Not Turkey. END OF KNOWN FACTS.
The Worcester number he was given is in a block used for "In the field transfers" to a Territorial battalion. The 9th Bn. (Who did go to Turkey)was NOT a Territorial Bn. and contains only six casualties with Territorial numbers. In percentage terms effectively NONE. The nearest number to Ernest's in the Casualty Roll of the 9th Bn. is so far away it is on another planet ! Going down in sequence the nearest number is 202833 and going up it is 241200. Your grandfather did not go to the 9th Bn. during the Great War. (Fingers crossed)

On the Great War Forum there is a section called "Document Look Ups". Other people like us when visiting the National Archives, will sometimes do checks for us. Put a posting in the section and give it a go. I shall be there (All being well) in two weeks. If it is not done by then, I will look it up. Stopping here, worried about being re-cycled again.
Regards Mike

[pippa]

Hi, I,m going into information overload i think, i have been doing my family history for quite a numbers of years now and can get by ok on that, from a military point of view without yourself and Ady i wouldn't have a clue as i have little knowledge of terminology etc although i am learning fast. Between you we are much further ahead than i would ever have got and for that i am greatful. One thing i have learn't from doing family history is that nothing is ever as it seems, tales get twisted because they want them to be told but can't tell the truth but they hope someone will come along and find the truth, the bad bits left out the good bits embellished and secrets buried. We will get there, we might not like it but it will be the truth. Pippa

[Mike Jones]

Morning Pippa,
Just to show how the truth can get altered sometimes. My mother was born November 1913. Her father, was recalled to fight in August 1914. He was killed soon after in 1914. My mother was told and subsequently told me, that his widow (My grandmother) loved him so much she refused to eat and died of a broken heart soon after. I have told my children this very sad story of true love. Unfortunately about five years ago I decided to find where my grandmother is buried. To cut a long story sideways, not only did she not die in 1914, she gave my mother away inorder to marry another soldier ! I think my mother died not knowing this. Perhaps it is best the truth stays buried sometimes.
Regards Mike

[pippa]

Hi Mike,
Have posted a look up but no takers as yet. I have also asked for information from the worcester archives.
Ady has just left me a message and thrown some more food for thought into play. he has found information on other local lads that is similar to Ernests.

205063 PTE JAMES ARTHUR JOWETT KIA 22-03-18 235156 WITH 10 WORCESTERS
205044(235139) PTE FRED FAIRBURN ENLISTED 3-3-17 WITH 2(5) WRR CAPTURED WITH 10 WORCESTERS 22-3-18
205164(235195) PTE A FIRTH ENLISTED 5-4-17WITH WRR CAPTURED 22-3-18 WITH 10 WORCESTERS.

It may be possible that his RoH is his battalian after repatriation.
Do we know where the 10 worcesters were in March 1918.
thanks Pippa