4th Battalion men resting at Louvencourt (The Somme) 28th Ju

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4th Battalion men resting at Louvencourt (The Somme) 28th Ju

Postby johnjarratt » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:19 pm

Hello to all, for some time now i have been trying to research my grandfathers ww1 history. 52474 Pte Thomas William Jarratt 4th Btn
Worc R . Without much success. His MIC just shows the usual information and his service papers must have been lost during WW2. The only connection i have found is a photo on this site in the 4th btn history section, which bears an uncanny resmblance to him.

It shows a bunch of fellows resting and is titled - 4th Battalion men resting at Louvencourt (The Somme) 28th June 1916.

Can anybody tell me any information about this photo.

& P.S. I tried to upload a photo of my grandad for comparison, but seem unable to do so because the code uses a / and you can't post with this character. is there any way round this?

thanks.
John.
Pte Thomas W Jarratt 4th Btn.
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Postby scully » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:19 pm

Hi John,

If you want to submit a photo you can email it to

webmaster@worcestershireregiment.com

Regards

Louis (webmaster)
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Postby Mike Jones » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:48 am

Morning John,
How do you know your Grandfather was in the 4th Battalion, please? Also was he aged around 19 in 1918? Depending on the answers I may be able to help a bit more.
Regards Mike
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Postby johnjarratt » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:05 pm

He was born 1896 in Birmingham. Thomas William Jarratt.
I know he served in the worc R, as it states so on his medals and MIC, He also served in the Glouc Regiment, so i went to their web site, entered his name and it told me he transferred from the 4th Worc R, but that was all it said, no dates or reasons why he transferred.

His MIC, is a bit sparse, all it states is his Name, No's and regiments, but no dates. He is only entitled to Victory and BWM, no Stars, so he must have joined after 1915.

There are no pension or service records under his name( well that's not entirely true. There is a Thomas William Jarratt, born Birmingham, same year, but it's not him, he lived down the street from my Grandad and served in the labour Corp)

My only avenue left was a trip to Kew and look through the war diaries for a mention of him, but not very likely, as he wasn't an officer. or to find a battalion order mentioning him.

I had given up all hope of discovering anymore information, until i spotted him in the picture mentioned above. So i was just wondering if anyone out there had any information on this picture.

Cheers John.
Pte Thomas W Jarratt 4th Btn.
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Postby Mike Jones » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:43 pm

Hello John,
I have been working on the case of Thomas William Jarratt but to your disappointment, can come to no firm conclusions, YET. I am still looking. If you are able to get to Kew, the Medal Roll itself will tell you which Battalion or Battalions Thomas was in. They may even give dates but less likely. However the sequence of numbers he was in tell us something. The 52*** sequence of numbers is a series I have not cracked YET. There were 41 men killed in this series, which is a very low number. I do not know why it is low. All but one of the men with a declared age was 19 years old or under. All very young men. Most of the men enlisted between Dec 1915 to Dec 1916. A few as late as April 1918. This again I don’t understand, YET. Numbers usually went out in strict sequence over a short period. To confuse the issue more, though these men enlisted mainly in 1916 no deaths occurred till March 1918. Very unusual. Men usually began to die shortly after they joined. Anyone got any ideas? Sorry John, can’t help any more at the moment.
Best regards Mike
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Postby johnjarratt » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:10 pm

Mike, Thanks for looking into this for me.

I think a trip to Kew is going to be my only other avenue on finding more information.

Just out of interest my dad, always said that my grandad was gassed at Ypres and suffered with his chest until he died. However, surely he would have some medical records to back this up, or do you think and as i suspect , it was just another 'War Story'?

Thanks again
John.
Pte Thomas W Jarratt 4th Btn.
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Postby johnjarratt » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:32 pm

Oh I forgot to mention, I've picked up a Battalion Order No 214,
For Ryde, Isle of Wight, 6th Sept 1917.

It contains the names and numbers of 15 men, i've started checking them, but only a couple appear on the medal index.

Could it be he was posted to somewhere like this and didn't see much of france or belgium?

The names on the Orders are:

Comdg 1st (G) Bn.Worcestershire - Colonel G.W.Lewis
20128 Pte Stenning, F. "c" Coy (Attatched from Ox & Bucks L.I.)
49718 Pte Sanjer, J. "b" Coy (Transfer to 30th Btn Middlesex Reg)
46398 Pte Goodall, J.H. "c" Coy
49666 Pte Bough,W. "d" Coy Joied 6.9.17 from O.T.C.(Burrator, Devon)

Stenning & Goodall, To forfeit 3 days pay for abscence 9.30pm 3.9.17
Until 6pm 5.9.17

The following Men Transferred to the southern Command Labour Centre, Egg Buckland, Plymouth. Were attached to the 1st(G) Worc for rations, Accomodation and discipline

24296 Pte Angell,F. "A" Coy (Attatched from 1st Hants)
23192 Pte Shilvock, H. "B" Coy
49432 Pte Hindle,A. "D" Coy


Furlough Ordinary ...?
24348 Pte Cattell,S. "B" Coy
37353 Pte Hartnell, W.J. "B" Coy (Infact they are all "B" Coy
38550 Pte Kettle, .M
32881 Cpl McDonald, S.
26703 Sgt Palmer, F.
25603 Pte Witchell, W.T.
48922 Pte Wincott, E.
9381 Sgt Collett, R.
287283 Pte New, W.A. (Attd from 631st(HS) Employment Corps)
Pte Thomas W Jarratt 4th Btn.
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Postby johnjarratt » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:33 pm

Hello Mike,

I see what you meen about the sequence of numbers 524**.

I listed all of them, and found out the details from the medal cards.

All but 1 of 01-70 Join the Worc R and are then posted to the K.S.L.I and weirdly, they all have new sequencial Numbers 27265, 27266 and so on.
in the number order they were given for the Worc R.

Now, you get to 52473 (transfered to Ox & Bucks) &
52474 (transfered to Glouc Reg). They are the only 70 somethings.
(listed on ancestry, anyway)

The next batch is 52480 - 99 who virtually all remain with the worcesters
for their whole career.

Why do relatives have to be awkward?

Cheers
John.
Pte Thomas W Jarratt 4th Btn.
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Postby Mike Jones » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:31 am

Morning John,
Well done son! You have carried on with some in depth research of your own and got some good results. It helps me as well. I now know (As a result of your work) why not many of of the 524** men were killed as Worcesters. They were transferred out to get killed in other regiments ! I have put your information in my Data-base against this sequence of numbers. Any chance you could take this a bit further, please? See if any of these mens service records appear on Ancestry (FREE at the moment). I would like to know the date they were drafted out, please.
Best Regards Mike
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Postby johnjarratt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:44 pm

Hello Mike,

I have searched for their service records, but unfortunatly all the men have surnames P,R,S,T & W and either aren't listed yet or didn't survive the bombing.

Blooooody Geeermans!!!!!!!!! :-)

So i'm afraid i've hit another dead end.

I'm not giving up though.

If you want me to send the information i have found out(spreadsheet format)
then just hello me at john@lostmedals.co.uk.

Cheers
John.
Pte Thomas W Jarratt 4th Btn.
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Postby Mike Jones » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:27 pm

Evening John,
I should have thought of that. Ancestry have only done up to the letter "M". It took them eight months to get from "H" to "M" , so I assume it will be another eight months to finish the work. Were there no men with a surname less than an M? Please send me what you have done so far, to mjonesgfc@aol.com. If there are no men before M , I may know the reason why.
Best Regards Mike
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