4th Bn Harry Jones

[Jan]

Help - I am new to this - this is my first posting!
My Grandfather Harry Jones who was in the 4th Bn died on 1 Dec 1917. He was a Private, Service No. 41519 and is buried in Tincourt New British Cemetery. I also know that he died of wounds France & Flanders. That much I know! Can anyone tell me how to find out any more information. Anything would help. Thanks. Jan

[johnjarratt]

Hello and welcome.

I will be able to supply you with his Medal Index Card, which shows his medal entitlement and when he joined up and where he started his service.
All I need is your e-mail, so if you e-mail me saying hello to
john@lostmedals.co.uk , then i will send the card straight back.

There are some very knowledgably people on this forum, who will be able to help you with the details of his service upto his death.

Sorry i can't help anymore.

John

[Kevin Lynott]

Jan.

The 4th Worcs spent the night of 29-30 November 1917 in the cellars of Marcoing. On the morning of 30th November the Germans broke through the 29th Div and 4th Worcs were ordered to defensive positions to the south west of the town along a sunken lane to the south of Marcoing Copse, even as they deployed the Germans were bearing down on the line having captured an artillery battery. The Germans were halted and an 88th Brig counter-attack was organised and the Germans were pushed back


Kevin

[Jan]

Hi Kevin

Many thanks for this information - it is helping to build a picture of what happend when Harry died on 1 December 1917. I am going to the cemetery in a few weeks time and will visit Marcoing as well. Any more information from anyone will be very helpful.

Thanks

Jan

[Jan]

Does anyone have any more information to help me find out more about my Grandfather 41519 4th Bn Private Harry George James Jones who died on 1 December 1917. Can I get a medical record, find out how he was killed, service records etc (or any other information). Any help would be appreciated.

Jan

[scully]

Hi Jan,

It apears he was previously with the Royal Service Corps (army number 1349) before the First World War and when war started he was recalled for service and joined the Worcestershire Regiment (new army number now 41519).

He landed in France on the 10th December 1914. However, the 4th Battalion did not go to France until 20th March 1916. He must have been with either another Worcestershire battalion or with another regiment and transferred to the 4th Battalion after March 1916.

He was awarded the British War Medal, Victory Medal and 1915 Star. However the 1915 Star was returned (or not issued) due to Kings Regulations 1743 K.R.

Kings Regulations (1912) para 1743 states:
"Medals which, at the end of 10 years, still remain unclaimed, will be sent to ... the deputy director of ordnance stores, Royal Dockyard (Medal Branch), Woolwich ... to be broken up."

Hope this is of some help.

Regards,

Louis

[Mike Jones]

Hello Jan.
When are you going to France? I do intend to check all my records for information on your grandfather but I have a bit of a backlog of work ahead of yours. I should be able to tell you when he joined the Worcesters and who with. It does take on average about three hours to check someone out. There is a one in three chance his service record survived. If it does exist it will soon be available on Ancestry. Other than that no other medical records survived for the Worcesters.
Regards Mike

[Jan]

Hi Louis

Thank you. This ties in with him being at home before 20 March 1916 as he married my Grandmother on 12 February 1916. Is there a way I can find out what Regiment he was with when he landed in France on 10 December 1914?

Jan

[Jan]

Hi Mike

Thank you for offering to check your records for information on my Grandfather. I am going to France very soon but will be grateful for any information you can give me as soon as you have time to check your records. I haven't got a death certificate yet but would that tell me how he died or do you think it will probably just say 'died of wounds' and is the GRO in Ireland the right place to get the certificate or would I be able to get it over here?

Jan

[Mike Jones]

Evening Jan,
I can answer these two questions now as they do not want any looking up. You will need the death certificate to complete the picture but it will contain no useful information. They were issued to Next-of-Kin (Who are not named) for legal and insurance purposes. It will say “Died of Wounds France or Belgium”. The only useful information is the man’s age is given. This can be useful in narrowing down more than one man with the same name. The certificate is available at the General Register office, England, under the Special Provisions act 1957, WW1 deaths.
Harry Jones crossed to France in Dec 1914 with the A.S.C..
He joined the Worcesters much later (That’s the bit that will take the work).
Regards Mike

[Jan]

Thanks Mike. I know how old Harry was - he was 21 in February 1916 when he got married so he was 22 when he was killed Dec 1917 although I do not know his exact birthday as yet. I shall wait patiently for any more information you can give me when you can. I wish I had thought of going further into this earlier so that I had more information when I go to France.

Anyone out there need any photos taken when I go to Tincourt Cemetery I would be more than willing to take them.

[Kevin Lynott]

Jan,

was your g/mothers maiden name Holton?

Kevin

[Jan]

Yes my Grandmothers name was Florence Holton - why???

Jan

[Kevin Lynott]

Jan,

I came across the record of Harry's marriage and was checking on the spouses surname

Kevin

[Mike Jones]

Hi Jan,
Your grandfather was drafted into the Worcestershire Regiment between 21st Sept 1916 and 28th November 1917. Probably around March 1917 but could have been as late as August 1917. He was already in France when this Draft-transfer occured. The block of numbers he is in, is for "In the field Transfers". He came in with 110 other men from the Army Service Corps. I hope given more time and a bit of luck to put an exact date on the drafting.
Regards Mike