confusion

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confusion

Postby Llamafarmer » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:47 pm

The more i find out about my great grandfather the more confused i become...

It looks like he may have lied about his age, he said he was 32 when actually nearer to 42! Why would he have done this? He was from Birmingham but his attestation certificate shows he joined the Royal Warwickshires however his service record shows him training with 12th batt worcesters at wareham from 17.8.14 to 14.10.15. Now the first part of my confusion, i thought basic training was only around 10 weeks or so.... why was he with them for the best part of 14 months?
Anyone know whereabouts of the camp was (wareham could be a generic term for bovington, worgret or lulworth and the area in between)

My great grandfather landed at Gallipoli on 28.10.1915 as a part of replacement troops for the 9th Battalion Worcesters. They had already landed as a unit in June 1915, as part of 39 Brigade of 13 Division. On 15.2.1916 he left for Mesopotamia. On 21.8.1916 he was evacuated to India with illness. On 21.12.1916 he was transferred to the Royal Warwicks. The papers say he was in Mespot till 1919,and then on 14.3.1919 to 29.3.1919 he was in Egypt. There is some missing information on the postings sheet so it looks incomplete and in places confusing.

Anyone know the wherabouts of the hospital in india....could he have caught malaria?? He was granted leave due to 5 of his brothers dying and also his mother, whilst on leave he wrote to the war office asking to be released from service due to chronic rheumatism caused by active service in the dardanelles and mesopotamia, the regt told him to get back to egypt with his birth certificate because they thought he'd lied about his age on joining up

Anyone know what the 9th batt were up to in mesopotamia? lots of questions i know but the more i find out the more i need to know!!!!
Llamafarmer
 
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Re: confusion

Postby Llamafarmer » Thu May 03, 2012 9:20 am

just thought id bump this post as Id had no response... Im still no nearer an answer, would really appreciate a hand with this

His first regimental number is 9359... would this have made him a regular orTA? He mentions on his attestation in July 1914 that he's re-enlisted; although in 1911 i have him as a greengrocer in Birmingham.

I think he was with the 9th Worcesters until he was evacuated to India in 1916 then transferred to the 1st Service Garrison Royal Warwicks... any information very much appreciated
Llamafarmer
 
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Re: confusion

Postby Kevin Lynott » Thu May 03, 2012 4:29 pm

What was his name ? What was his second service number?
In the early part of the 20th Cent Birmingham wasn't the conurbation it is now and men from what is now the city and east of the West Midlands went into the RWarks, SWest of the West Mids into the Worcs and the west and north into the SStaffs. Upon the outbreak of the war the rush of volunteers from the 'city' were formed into the four Birmingham Pals Bns of the RWarks Reg.
The 1st Garrison Bn RWarks arrived in the Middle East about early Sep15, from Sep15 to Sep16 it was in the Sudan. It then went to Egypt where it remained until the Bn was disbanded in June 19. So that doesn't match up with the route you have described him taking.
Are you sure it was the 9th Worcs because the 9th RWarks who were brigaded with the 9th Worcs pretty much follow the same route as them:-
Jan16 to Mesopotamia
Feb 16 North Persia
July 1918 South Russia
Aug 18 Baku, Krasnovodsk
Sep 1981 Baku
Jun 1919 Tiflis
Aug 1919 Russia disbanded
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Re: confusion

Postby Llamafarmer » Thu May 03, 2012 5:05 pm

Hi Kevin

Thanks for the reply; My great grandfathers name is Ernest Smith. I have copies of my great-grandfathers service records, tattered and burnt as they are they definitely mention that he was attested at the Town Hall Birmingham, he was from Hockley.... His attestation sheet is stamped 1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshires... his number on attestation is 9359. He is attested on 17.8.14 and joins the Worcesters.

On one statement of service its stamped 1st Garrison Battalion R War R yet the first entry is joined at Worcester on 17.8.14, posted & mobilized with 5th Worcester Regiment that same day and then posted to the 12th Worcesters 1.11.14 - he then joins the 9th Worcesters part of the Expeditionary Force Mediterranean on 15.10.15

He was appointed L/Cpl with the 9th Worcesters 18.5.16 and then evacuated to India with an illness/ injury 21.8.16 he was then transferred to the Royal Warks Regt where his number changed to 32263

Ive been trying to get to the bottom of this for about 2 years! Please help shed some light on this, Ive jpg copies of all the service records i have, if you need them let me know
Llamafarmer
 
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Re: confusion

Postby Llamafarmer » Thu May 03, 2012 5:09 pm

As an additional I have his medal index card which shows him as 9359 Pte Worc R and 32263 Pte (L/Cpl) R War R

His index for the Victory & British Medal is L/1041330 p6491 and his 15 Star L/1C p 65

The theatre of war first served was the Balkans 28.10.15
Llamafarmer
 
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Re: confusion

Postby corona » Thu May 03, 2012 5:26 pm

If 9359 Ernest Smith Worcs.Regt and 37263 R. War.Regt.is your Grandfather then I might have some non WW1 information for you.
Find my Past have the records of 4 Ernest Smiths, who served in the ROYAL WARWICK REGT. MILITIA.
If you have additional family details e.g Census information, family members, address locations, etc.you might identify your relation.
One of them I read, served in the Boer War in S.Africa. Worth a look!
corona.
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Re: confusion

Postby Llamafarmer » Thu May 03, 2012 7:53 pm

Ernest Smiths Worcester number was 9359 and his Warwickshire number was 32263

He was born 10th June 1881 at 20 court Hospital Street in Birmingham

His father was Charles a jeweller and his mother Anna or Hannah formerly Blythe, they lived in Hospital Street most of their lives, Ernest was a labourer in 1901

He married Leah Ashford 27th September 1903

They have five children...

Alfred Edwin born January 4th 1906, Ernest is a journeyman slater at this time; living at 25 court 7 Great Russell Street

Samuel Arthur (my grandad) born 30th May 1908, Ernest is a Master Fruiterer; living at 208 Great Russell Street

Ernest born 20th September 1909, Ernest is still a master fruiterer; living at 35 court 7 Great Russell Street

Lily May born 18th February 1912, Ernest is still a master fruiterer still living 35 court 7 Great Russell Street

William born 22 March 1914, Ernest is still a master fruiterer but living back at 208 Great Russell Street

Ernest then joins the Worcesters 17.8.14

I lose him after his wife dies in 1921, i can find hardly any mention of him

Any information at all you could provide would be brilliant, i still cant find his death certificate!
Llamafarmer
 
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Re: confusion

Postby corona » Fri May 04, 2012 12:35 pm

I've had another look at the Militia records using the details you provided. Your relation appears to be 6762 Pte. E Smith 5th /RWR who served in the Boer War.
There are a number of Service Papers for him on the pay for site FIND MY PAST, but some recorded details, don't match your provided information, in all respects.
You should obtain them for your self and compare them with his WW1 Papers for confirmation.
For his service in the Boer War he was awarded the Queen's South Africa Medal , with the clasps CAPE COLONY,TRANSVAAL,S AFRICA 1902.
corona.
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Re: confusion

Postby Llamafarmer » Fri May 04, 2012 1:33 pm

Thanks corona, looks like I'll have to subscribe to find my past.. I'm already subscribed to ancestry though :-( in 1902 he would have been 21 and I have him living at home in 1901 he's a labourer... Don't think it is my man, but like you say I won't know till I see if for myself... Do u have the reference so I can go straight to it????
Llamafarmer
 
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