Private 5447 William Nash, Gheluvelt?

[rgn]

Hi, I'm trying to research details of my Grandfather, Private 5447 William Nash. He was in the 2nd Bn and was sadly killed on 20-11-1914 (96 years today!) and that's all I know at present.

I was wondering if he as at Gheluvelt as I know the 2nd Bn famously fought here. Does anyone know of a list soldiers who fought at Gheluvelt?

Any further information about Private 5447 William Nash would be gratefully received.

Many Thanks

[allanp]

Hi ???? (Name)

There is a reference in the 6th March 1915 edition of the Worcester Herald for 5447 Pte W. Nash - Killed in Action at Neue Chappelle - 1st Battalion.

If you check out the Battalion tab on this website, it has some excellent information on the fighting at Neue Chappelle.

Regards Allan

[scully]

Hi,

As a follow up to Allan's reply.

Pte. W. Nash (5447) medal index card shows he was initially with 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment and embarked in France on the 19th SEPTEMBER 1914. He may have transferred over to the 1st Battalion before he was killed in action.

I have him on a list of men who fought with the 2nd Battalion at Gheluvelt.

Regards,

Louis (webmaster)

[rgn]

Hi Both,

Thanks for your replies.

Allan - I think this must be another W Nash although that was his service number!

Details from the CWGC Site :-

Name: NASH, WILLIAM
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 39
Date of Death: 20-11-1914
Service No: 5447
Additional information: Son of George and Arm Nash, of 29, Loves Grove, Worcester; husband of Kate Nash, of 1 Court, Hyton Rd., Worcester.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 34.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL



Louis - so he was at Gheluvelt and survived. I feel proud that he was one of the brave men who fought there.

What is shown on a medal index card? Sorry for my ignorance but I'm new to this.

Regards
Richard

[scully]

Hi Richard,

The Medal Index Card shows the medals he was entitled to plus information on Regiment (sometimes also gives Battalion). The card also gives the reference number to the Medal Roll held at the archives at Kew if you wanted to reseach further there. It also shows the date he entered the Theatre of War and mentions if he was killed or died.

In the case of Private William Nash (5447) it gives the following information:
2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment
He was entitled to the following medals:
British War Medal (Roll number L 102 B2 Page number 4558)
Victory Medal (Roll number L 2 3 Page number 4558)
1914 Star with Clasp (Roll number L 2 3 Page number 71)
Medal Roll reference show in brackets.

The date he entered the Theatre of War was 19th September 1914 (I made an error on my previous post so you will notice i have corrected it to read the same).

It also mentions he was killed in action (but does not give a date on the card).

Regards,

Louis (webmaster)

[rgn]

Hi Louis,

Thank you so much for this information.

When you say "entered the Theatre of War was 19th September 1914" does this mean when he first saw action, when he left for Flanders or when he joined up?

We were wondering if he was called up, if he volunteered or if he was a reservist as he was 39 and would have left a 4 year child behind (my Dad).

I know that times were very different then and there was a must stronger sense of duty and there was a thought that it was going to be all over by Christmas!

Thanks again, I feel I'm starting to get a know about a Grandfather I never knew.

Regards
Richard

[scully]

Hi Richard,

The date of entry into the Theatre of War was the date he disembarked in France and joined the fighting forces and shortly afterwards made his way to join the 2nd Battalion. The 2nd Battalion previously landed in France on the 15 August 1914 so he was have joined as part of a new draft of men on the 19th September 1915.

His army number would suggest he was a reservist and would have been recalled for active service.

Below is an extract from the 2nd Battalion history for the dates of the 19th, 20th and 21st September 1914:

September 19th was the first of three days of continuous strain and heavy fighting. The enemy's shell-fire against the positions of the 2nd Division developed about 2 p.m. into a tremendous bombardment both against the left flank of the Division held by the 4th (Guards) Brigade, and against the position of the 6th Brigade, then holding the valley running up to Braye and the wooded ridge of La Bovette. An infantry attack against the latter began as dusk fell. Orders then came for " A " and " B " Companies of the 2nd Worcestershire to move from their position in reserve at Verneuil to the support of the 6th Brigade. The two companies reported to the Brigadier of the 6th Brigade about 8 p.m. and lay in reserve throughout the night. Meanwhile the remainder of the 2nd Worcestershire had been withdrawn from the Tilleul height and remained all night in reserve, " standing by " ready to reinforce any threatened point. Dawn of the 20th brought a storm of shells, and the German infantry commenced to push forward. The attack came against the right flank battalion of the 6th Brigade, the 1st King's Regiment, which was holding the line from the canal in the Braye valley to the western slopes of the Tilleul spur. The western slope of the spur was heavily wooded, and the German infantry worked their way forward through the woods. Into these woods " A " and " B " Companies of the 2nd Worcestershire were sent, together with two platoons of the H.L.I., to drive back the attacking enemy. The advance began about 11 a.m. With great difficulty the two companies pushed through the dense woods, suffering many casualties from the enemy's fire. Beyond the wood they came
upon a company of German infantry in position. The Worcestershire companies charged with the bayonet and drove the enemy from their trenches. Then, as they pressed on, disaster befell them. A strong force of the enemy, well entrenched on the flank, opened a murderous fire as the Worcestershire platoons spread out over the open. The losses were heavy, all the officers of two companies were shot down, and the remnant fell back. A tangled fight ensued, in which the little force became hopelessly scattered in the dense wood. Eventually Captain C. E. L. Porter, wounded though he was, succeeded in collecting a remnant of the two companies, and established a position on the near edge of the wood, linking up with the 5th Brigade on the right and the 6th Brigade on the left. Meanwhile " C " and " D " Companies had been sent up to support the H.L.I, on the Tilleul hill.

Next day (21st) at dawn "A" and " B " Companies were relieved and withdrawn into reserve. The enemy's heavy guns continued to shell the position at intervals and there were some minor attacks, but the 2nd Worcestershire were not actively engaged.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Louis (webmaster)

[rgn]

Hi Louis,

Thanks once again for the information, really helpful.

One other question (sorry!) do you know where the 2nd Battalion were on the days leading up to , and on the 20-11-1914, the day my Grandfather was killed please

Many Thanks
Richard

[peter]

Hi Richard,

From Stacke (The Worcestershire Regiment in the Great War).

On November 19th came orders for the trenches again. In snow and bitter cold the Battalion marched at dusk through Hooge eastward along the Menin Road, and relieved the 1st Cheshire and 1st Bedfordshire in the front line trenches immediately south of the Road. Then followed two days and nights of most trying conditions. The trenches were half-full of frozen water, and snow fell continually; but both sides kept up a constant sniping fire and there were several casualties (Nov. 19th-21st:- 2 killed, 6 wounded).
At last came relief. Before dawn on November 21st French troops filed into the trenches and the Worcestershire moved out. The companies filed back independantly to Hooge. There in the growing light the Battalion formed up, and then marched off westward along the Menin Road. By 'Hell-fire Corner' and Potijze they tramped, through the streets of Ypres to Vlamertinghe and thence southward by Locre to Bailleul, where the long march ended in billets and a well-earned rest.

On my database I have 4 men Killed in action for the 20th November 1914. The other 3 men killed on this day were Pte. 13082 Frederick Arthur Baldwin, Pte. 10172 William Henry Horsley and Sgt. George Henry Roberts.

I have the following information on your Grandfather on my database.

Private Nash was born (1884) and enlisted in Worcester. The husband of Kate Nash of 29 Loves Grove, Worcester he was killed in action aged 39 and is remembered on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial, St. Clements War Memorial and Worcester Guildhall Memorial.

Do you have a photograph of your Grandfather in uniform?

Regards

Peter

[rgn]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately we have no information or photo's of my Grandfather. My Dad was only 4 when his Father was killed so I guess he knew very little himself. The only thing we have is a widow's mite in the name of W. Nash, which until recently we thought this was my Dad's ,he was William Nash as well, as we didn't know what it was

My Grandfather's year of birth is incorrect in your database, in should be 1875, which correlates with him being 39 when he was killed in 1914.

Do you know roughly where the trenches refered to in the text as being "in the front line trenches immediately south of the Road." would have been?

Many thanks for you help.

Regards
Richard

[peter]

Hi Richard,

Thank you for pointing out the incorrect (birth) year I had for your Grandfather on my database.

I have found a William Nash on the 1901 census serving with 4th Battalion Worcesters at Rammillies Barracks, Aldershot. He is 26 years old and single with the rank of sergeant, born Stoke Prior, Worcestershire (not sure if this could be your Grandfather).

Also marriage details for a William Nash to Kate Smith, September Q. 1907, Worcester (possible).

I don't have any trench maps so can't help with the position other than the details from Stacke that the Worcesters marched eastward through Hooge along the Menin Road and the trenches were immediately to the south of the road.

Regards

Peter

[rgn]

Hi Peter,


If the William Nash on the 1901 census was and he was a sergeant, if he were call up in September 1914, as a reservist would he have been a Private when he reenlisted?

I will have to look at the 1911 census and see what his occupations was then.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,
Richard

[peter]

Hi Richard,

Most probably William was a reservist and recalled to the colours in August 1914 (the date he went to France would support this). A soldier could be reduced in rank for many reasons and could also request being reduced in rank himself. But no proof as yet that the William on the 1901 census is your Grandfather.

Your Great Grandmothers name is most unusual (Arm) but could be an error on CWGC details. I have found no census details with a George and Arm Nash on.

Regards

Peter

[rgn]

Hi Peter,

My Great Grandmothers name was actually Ann and not Arm as on the CWGC site. Also the address has a typo error. I was wondering if I should let them know. I guess it would be useful if anyone is researching in the future.

Regard
Richard

[peter]

Hi Richard,

Yes it's worth contacting them so they can correct the information on William. I have been in touch with them on a number of occasions regarding some of the men I have been researching.
Could you let me know the correct address please.
Can now search the census again now I know the names I'm looking for.

Regards

Peter