Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

This section of the forum is for any enquires relating the the First World War covering the dates 1914 to 1920.

Moderators: Kevin Lynott, peter, LarsA

Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby Mike Jones » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:39 pm

Your help and input is needed please, to correct and update the Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls of 1914. I would like to complete the work by 2014. The two Rolls name soldiers of the Worcestershire Regiment who landed in France in August 1914 and took on the full force of the advancing German Army. They paid a heavy price. Of the 2466 men named in the Rolls, at least 800 were dead by the end of the War. I do not want the Rolls themselves changed, just an addendum added.
THE ROLLS NEED UPDATING. The details on the Rolls as they stand make it difficult to postively identify soldiers listed thereon. There are six men identified only as “Pte. Jones A.” and many other instances of vague details. The update I have in mind is to add the full name of each man, his age, regimental number and military destiny.
THE ROLLS NEED CORRECTING. There are approx. 26 men who managed to get their names on BOTH Rolls. There are some names that should not be on there at all. Worst of all there are approx. 150 men who SHOULD be in the Rolls but are not. Easiest mistake to spot is ALL the men whose surnames begin with “V” have been left off the 2nd Bn. Roll. Viz, Pte.’s William Vann 10117, James Vaughan 9960, William Vaughan 10978, Ernest Veal 13356, Arthur Vials 9085, and George Voss 11839.
A few facts have come to light that might be best forgotten but that is the nature of the beast.
Check your man out to see if he is on my addendum Rolls and what details I have on him. Correct ME if I have got anything wrong. Then please add anything you have, a photo would be nice !
It is not possible to put my Rolls on display yet, they are still work in progress but it is already a very big file.
Put your man’s details on here as a posting and we will see if we agree on him. Don’t let your man or his Endeavours Fade (Borrowed from Rose Coombs) ! Part of the project is to see just how many men are now forgotten by their blood relatives.
Many thanks for any help that may be forthcoming.
Mike Jones
Last edited by Mike Jones on Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mike Jones
Mike Jones
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Kent

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls 1914

Postby corona » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:25 pm

Hi Mike,
Here are some of the Worcesters, awarded the 1914 STAR, I have researched.More to come when I sort out my records.
5637 CQMS GEORGE WILLIAM TRAVELL 2/WORCS.
FRANCE 12/8/14 D OF W 23/10/14 BORN WORCESTER 1879 SERVED IN BOER WAR.
10557 PTE. BERNARD BREESE 2/WORCS.
FRANCE 26/8/14 KIA 31/10/14 BORN BIRMINGHAM 1889 SERVED IN WORCS. MILITIA.
7590 PTE.WILLIAM FRANCE 2/WORCS.
FRANCE 12/9/14 BORN DUDLEY 1883 PREVIOUS 5779 WORCS. MILITIA.
10597 L/CPL. ALBERT E STAIT 2/WORCS.
FRANCE 27/8 /14 BORN BIRMINGHAM 1889 AWARD M M L.GAZ.8/12/1916.
I had quick look at the MICs for A JONES. I found 14 but expect there are many more! There were only 3 awarded the 1914 Star.
9856 PTE.A JONES 2/WORCS.FRANCE 12.8/14
9459 PTE.ARRON JONES 2/WORCS FRANCE 26/8/14 .BORN WILLENHALL STAFFS. AWARDED DELHI DURBAR MEDAL.
9109 PTE. ALBERT JONES. FRANCE 12/8/14 KIA 21/10.14
Regards,
corona.
corona
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls 1914

Postby peter » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:08 pm

Hi Mick,

Some details on Private 5731 A. G. Hardwick KiA (presumptive 21.10.1914) 3rd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment.

The son of William and Fanny Hardwick born Sept.Q. 1885 Worcester.
1891 census the Hardwick family (parents, Albert aged 6 and his two brothers Ernest aged 8 and William aged 4) were living at 6 Spa Grdens, Foundry Street, Worcester.
Enlisted (Attested) 28th February 1900 Birmingham (living in Alvechurch at the time).
1901 census A serving soldier aged 16 and was a patient in hospital in Farnborough, Hampshire.
1911 census Private 2nd Battalion Worcesters, Jhansi India. (aged 26 and single).
1912 married to Edith May Parker (June Q. Kings Norton).
Went to France with the 3rd Bn. 12th September 1914.
His wife was granted a pension of 18/6 per week for herself and her 2 children from the 18th October 1915.
Entitled to 1914 Star, British War and Victory Medals.
His service papers are available on Ancestry.


Some details from the Bromsgrove, Droitwich and Redditch Weekly Messenger Saturday 27th March 1915 p.3.

Weatheroak Soldier Missing.

Mrs. Hardwick, of Weatheroak Hill, wife of 5731 Pte. A.G. Hardwick, of the 2nd Worcesters, received a communication from the War Office on Tuesday, informing her that her husband was not amongst the prisoners in Germany, and it is thought he must have fallen in the Battle of Ypres.He had been missing since 13th October last. Pte. Bert Hardwick was a reservist. A native of Worcester, his father served many years in the Army and two of his brothers are still at the front. He was captain of the Weatheroak Quoit Club, and a first class player. Some years ago he was goalkeeper for Worcester City Football Club. Until he was called up he was employed by Messsrs. Cadbury, Bournville.

NOTE: The paper says 2nd Bn. not 3rd (error by paper?)

He is remembered on Panel 17 and 18 of the Le Touret Memorial, and the Roll of Honor, Cadbuy Brothers Ltd., Bournville.

Regards

Peter
peter
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:58 am

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls 1914

Postby Mike Jones » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:12 am

Hi Corona,
Many thanks for your information, it is just the kind of input I need. I can now check those men to make sure their details are correct and included in the addendum Rolls. Particularly useful is that you have added the year the men were born. I have trouble finding that bit out.
However you have started straight amongst the problems I am having. The very first name you list ! If you look on the Cathedral Roll you will see that entry number 37 on the 2nd Bn. Cathedral Roll (2C/R) says Travell J not Travell G.W.. Is it the same man? I am 100% sure that Travell J and Travell G.W are one and the same man but that is where these Addendum Rolls will come into their own.
For anyone following this thread, you can view the names on the 2nd Bn.Cathedral Roll from the “Home” page on this website. Click on “Worcester Cathedral and Regiments Connections”. Thank you for all your hard work Webmaster (Louis Scully).
The bit of information you may not have is that on the burial list I have, it says Travell died of wounds received the previous day.
Pte. Bernard Breese 10557 is all as you record. Sad to note (I think), is that in the 2nd Bn. Star Roll (2S/R) it says “Presumed to have died on or since 31.10.1914”. No one witnessed his death or knew anything about it. But his body must have been found as he is in a known grave.
Pte. William France 7590. I have him down as landing in France 12/8/1914, not Sept.
Pte. Albert Stait 10597, all present and correct, Sir.
......Them damn “Jones’s” I will deal with later.
Many thanks Mike Jones
Mike Jones
Mike Jones
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Kent

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls 1914

Postby Mike Jones » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:31 am

Hi Peter,
I have printed off all that information you sent and will attach it to Pte. Albert G Harwick's Star Roll entry, thank you. However since he did not land in France until AFTER August he will not be on the Cathedral Roll. It was interesting to note in the 1891 census that Albert had two brothers, William and Ernest. In the newspaper report you sent it said he had two brothers still at the Front. The cathedral Roll contains just TWO Hardwicks, William 12061 and Ernest 5741 both in 3rd Bn.. I wonder ?
Many thanks Mike
Mike Jones
Mike Jones
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Kent

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby corona » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:55 pm

Hi Mike,
7590 WILLIAM FRANCE your landing date is correct 12/8/1914.
GEORGE WILLIAM TRAVELL has two MIC CARDS with the initial 'J' on the one recording the 1914 STAR ( CQMSJT.)
The second has 'GEORGE W' on the one recording the WAR and VICTORY MEDALS(C/SJT.)
I have afull set of papers for him and GEORGE WILLAM TRAVELL is the correct name.
Details of another group of 2nd Batt.men to follow.
Regards,
corona.
corona
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby peter » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:41 pm

Hi Mick,

Sorry about Hardwick, it is the Cathedral Rolls you are working on and not all 14 Star (Worcesters) men.

The two brothers are Ernest Frederick Hardwick b. June Q. 1883 and William Alfred Hardwick b. Sept. Q. 1887, both Worcester.
1911 census shows a Pte. William Hardwick aged 26 born Worcester, single serving with the 2nd Battalion Worcesters, Jhansi, India (could be the brother).
1901 census shows a Pte. Ernest Hardwick aged 17 Blenheim Barracks (however it gives his birth place as Birmingham so I don't think this Ernest is the right one). Have not found any results for him on 1911 census.
The MIC's for both Hardwicks 12061 and 5741 give the date of 12.8.1914 for France.

Pte. 9459 Aaron Jones was born Sept. Q. 1887 Willenhall. 1911 census aged 24 and single sering with the 4th Bn. Worcs.
Pte. 10597 Albert ERNEST Stait.
The deatails I have for Travell confirm those from Corona.

Regards

Peter
peter
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:58 am

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby corona » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:39 pm

Mike,
Next selection of 2nd Batt. men.
8467 PTE.THOMAS HERBERT COSNETT.
FRANCE 12/8/1914 DIED OF WOUNDS 19/1/1915.
BORN PERSHORE 1884
One of 7 soldier brothers 4 of them died on active service.
8228 PTE. ALBERT BRETTELL.
FRANCE 12/8/1914 KIA 23/10/1914.
BORN WEST BROMWICH 1887.
11296 PTE.CHARLES ROBERT SWIFT.
FRANCE 12/8/1914 KIA 31/10/1914.
BORN BIRMINGHAM 1889.
11421 PTE. SIDNEY CARTWRIGHT .
FRANCE12/8/1914.
BORN STONE WORCESTERSHIRE 1885.
Thats all my 2nd Batt.men. Should you have any named men that are giving you additional /real problems let me know on this post.
Perhaps I might be able to help .
Regards,
corona
corona
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby corona » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:15 pm

Mike,
I did another check on 9459 PTE AARON JONES.
He was a recalled reservist in 1914 having served earlier in other battalions of the regiment.
However,it was to the 2nd Batt. he was posted and arrived in France 26/8/1914.
His MIC records 2nd Batt. and so does his service papers, which have survived.
corona.
corona
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby corona » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:41 pm

Mike,
I have another JONES for you!
L/CPL. DAVID JONES 5894 2/BATT. SJT. 9/BATT.
Confirmed 1911 Census 2/Batt. Jhansi India.
MIC France 12/8/1914.
Served as 6841 6th (Militia)Batt.Worcesters 3/12/1903 to 21/11/1904 when he joined the 2nd Regular Batt.
Born Bilston Staffs.aged 17 yrs 11 months on enlistment .Trade Bricklayers Labourer.
corona
corona
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby Mike Jones » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:30 am

Hi Corona,
With regards to your posting No.7 on 31.12.11 on this theme. My details match yours ! Thomas Cosnett 8467 is 2C/R 400, Albert Brettell 8228 is 2C/R 292, Charles Swift is 2C/R 1059 and Sidney Cartwright 11421 is 2C/R 342.
Your offer of help is greatly appreciated. Peter Rose has helped a lot especially with the numbering of the 2nd Bn. Cathedral Roll and the 2nd. Bn. Star Roll. All such help will be added to the Addendum Roll when finished. Of the 2466 men most I am sure I know who they are. About 100 men I am not sure of but following lines of enquiry.
There are eight men who I have no idea who they are after more than 3 years of looking. Entry No. 622 on the 2nd Bn. Cathedral Roll (2C/R 622) is Hayward W.. There is no one in the Star Roll of either Bn. who fits the bill. I do have a Haywood J 12795 who went over on 12.8.1914 who is in the Star Roll 2S/R 575 but is NOT on Cathedral Roll. Whether they are connected ?
Bellamy T. is 2C/R 241 but there is no sign of him in Star Rolls. There is Bellamy A.S. 12132 in Star Rolls, landed 12.8.1914 but he is NOT in C/R. Are they one and the same man ? Peter rekons they are the same man but I would value your opinion.
Many thanks Mike
P.S. A late edit I should have put in. The Regimental Number of anyone on the Cathedral Roll is extremely unlikely to be above 13700. Also there are NO Territorial soldiers on the Cathedral Roll. I mention that as the Territorials at this time had very low numbers 9 to 2305
Last edited by Mike Jones on Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Mike Jones
Mike Jones
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:00 am
Location: Kent

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby beardie » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:25 pm

hello mike,
8068 charles brettle taken from county express newspaper

Wollescote soldier's death

intimation reached his parents at stocking street wollescote, on sunday week,of the death of pte brettle of the 2nd worcestershire regt. in the battle of the Aisne.
Pte brettle was 31 years of age and before joining the army eleven years ago was employed by mr woodridge , bromley street
steve beard
beardie
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:18 am
Location: black country

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby beardie » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:01 pm

10121 benjamin chance

county express newspaper

Lye soldier killed

information was received on sunday morning from the war office by mr john chance, of no 30 green lane, lye, that his son pte ben chance of the 2nd worcesters has been killed in action. pte chance, who was unmarried , was a reservist, and went to the front at the commencement of the war. He had resided with his brother at old hill, and had been employed at messers. t and e lowe's timber yard. his brother jack who was a postman at old hill, is serving with royal field artillery at the front
steve beard
beardie
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:18 am
Location: black country

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby corona » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:09 pm

Mike,
I believe BELLAMY A.S and BELLAMY T are one and the same man!
The 1911 Census has ARCHIBALD SIDNEY(SEPTIMUS ON SWB) BELLAMY serving with 4th Batt. in India. Born 1880 Leamington, Warwick.
On the MIC the 1st initial (T) has been crossed out and replaced with ARCHIE .S.
The SWB lists L/C BELLAMY ARCHIBALD SEPTIMUS , 12132,Enlisted 13/12/1904 Discharged 8/5/1916. Wounds.
I suspect he was a recalled Reservist in Aug,1914 and joined the 2nd Batt. The initial error on the MIC has caused the confusion!
corona.
corona
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Re: Worcester Cathedral Embarkation Rolls - August 1914

Postby peter » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Mick,

Pte. 12132 Archibald Septimus Bellamy was born June Q. 1881 Leamington, Warks.

Peter
peter
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:58 am

Next

Return to First World War

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron