2nd Battalion Drafts (Gheluvelt Roll in mind)

[peter]

Between 5th September and the 4th October the 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment had four drafts of men sent over. Drafts 1,3 and 4 are accounted for in the War Diary and in Stackes book, however the second draft is not mentioned. Can any one tell me when the second draft was and how many men were involved.

I hope to compile a list for the men of the 2nd Battalion who were at Gheluvelt on the 31 October 1914 and to do so I need to know how many men had been sent to France by that date. From the information I have I believe that a total of about 1293 men including the three drafts mentioned had gone to France/Belgium by then. (Oct. 31st)

If any member knows of a man from the 2nd Battalion who was at Gheluvelt your help would be most appreciated.

Regards

Peter

[LarsA]

Hope I'm not out of order, but I wonder if you have a pte William Russell, 4852, on your list. I have his medals in my care. Should add that his MIC show entering France 12/8/1914 and has the corresponging star.

Best regards,
Lars

[Mike Jones]

Morning Lars,
Welcome to Louis Scully's Worcestershire Forum. We dont get many Worcestershire soldier enquiries coming from Sweden, well actually NONE! Peter, who is the main man on this Gheluvelt project, is on holiday at the moment. So I have answered "Pro Temp" in his place. I dont know if you meant to press the "4" when you put in William's Number but his number is 7852. We rekon the list will take at least one year to do, probably two years is more likely. We have to find all 2nd Battalion men who have a 1914 Star, which we have had some problems with. Then check that they are on the Regimental Embarkation list. The bit that will take the time is going through all the casualty lists, to check if the man was reported wounded or sick before 31st October 1914. I am 95% sure that William was there in that Crucial Unsupported Counter Attack At Gheluvelt Chateau. He does have the 1914 Star, in October 1920 he was awarded the Clasp and Rose to go with it. Do you have these as well? He is on the embarkation list. What we have not yet done is check all the different Casualty Lists. Did you know that William has a Silver War Badge as well? His badge, number 3810, was in the very first batch of 11 awarded to Worcestershire Regiment soldiers. Regimental Archives at Worcester, do have a copy of the details on his S.W.B. There is some good information in these details, if you dont already have them. There is (I think) a £5 charge to look out these details. Lars could you E/Mail me a copy of his MIC to mjonesgfc@aol.com, please?
Regards Mike

[LarsA]

Many thank's for your swift answer and valuable information, had forgot to ask my researcher to look up the SWB number when he checked for his discharge date - great if he turns out to be a Gheluvelt charger, not to many medals around for them. Seems he was discharged in september 1916, and was renumbered before, 74440 if i'm not amiss in the figures again. 7 and 4 look very like one another for a Swede, we have a habit of crossing the staple of the "7".

I have the clasp on the ribbon for the star, but not the rose or SWB unfortunately. I'm very interested to get the information on the SWB card, is the information in the regimental archive the same as in the National Archives? If so I think that would be the easiest way to get hold of them.

MIC mailed, also some information in case of interest) on 17239 R J Washington, a private in the 2nd btn (entered 27/5/1915), who won an MM LG 18/7/1917, might have been in an attack on Croiselles, Arras. Have his MM, 14-15trio and TEM as a sgt in the 8th btn.

Best regards,
Lars

[Mike Jones]

Hi Lars,
Thank you very much for the Medal Index Cards, I was also interested in Pte. Washington's details. Yes the Worcestershire Regiment have the same entry, dot for dot as the National Archive entries. The Worcesters had to put a lot of time and effort into getting them, so it is well worth the £5. The money goes (as you would imagine) to help with the cost of maintaining and extending the archives. What better place could there be for your donation?
You are right , he appears to have been re-numbered 74440. Only trouble is, it cant be right! It does not matter to the validity of your medals but something is wrong with the number. He was discharged in 1916 but the number 74440 was not issued till 1919. I note there is a different asterisk against 74440 and the same mark against the Clasp details. Curious! Is there a number on the back of the CLASP?
Regards Mike

[LarsA]

I'll take you up on the suggestion to ask the regimental museum. As you say, a very good place for a donation. And perhaps they can shed some light on the number puzzle. No number on back on the clasp, I'm not sure there were any. I have two different, both original and no numbers.

Perhaps he reenlisted in 1919? But then, wouldn't that show on his MIC?

I found the link on the first page to the museum. The nature of his discharge might give a lead.

Best regards,
Lars

[ravrick]

Hi all, I would be grateful if anybody could help me research the following 3 men from the 2nd Worc who all qualified for the 1914 star and clasp, I would be interested to know if Stewart and basted were chargers.

8960 Pte J Vaughan, D Coy a confirmed charger (I don't have the source of confirmation to hand)
12874 Pte FC Basted, deployed to France on 11.08.14 (1st draft?)
8537 Cpl CE Stewart, awarded a mention in dispatches on 17 Feb 1915 (possibly for action at Gheluvelt as London gazette entries normally appear approx 3 months after the action). Awarded the MM 11 October 1916 and was commissioned into the 20th Bn Manchester Regt and killed in action on 10th Sept 1916.
Any help really appreicated, thanks, Rick

[Mike Jones]

Morning Rick,
Pte. J. Vaughan's number is 9960 not 8960. The bit of information that would help us, you cant find. Vaughan is one of the men we need information on. Some men were quite clearly there at Gheluvelt Chateau, no ifs or buts. Vaughan does have a 1914 Star but he is NOT on the embarkation List and he never applied for the Bar. So YOUR help would be much appreciated, please.
Regards Mike

[peter]

Hi Rick

The information from Mike about Pte. J. Vaughan is correct in that his number is 9960 and not 8960 and he was entitled to the Star. My grandfather was in 'D' company so I would be interested in how you know for certain that Pte. J. Vaughan was a member of that company. Pte. J. Vaughan is not on the Cathedral Roll at Worcester. If you believe he was at Gheluvelt it would help if you could let me know from what source you obtained the details. To try and list the men at Gheluvelt will take a lot of time searching wounded lists and those killed prior to 31st October and cross reference with those known to have embarked for France before this date. Your help would be most appreciated.

Regards

Peter

[ravrick]

Hi Peter, unfortunatly all my research is back in the UK, I will try to get my wife to locate it. I remember that I bought a 1914 star to Pte vaughan and I printed off the e mails which stated how he was confirmed as a charger, as soon as I can i will pass it on to you, do you have any information on the other 2 soldiers, i am trying to establish tha Stewarts MID was fo for actions in the charge, thanks, Rick

[peter]

Hi Rick,

I can't give you any more information on your other two men, Cpl. Stewart and Pte Basted other than what you already know. Basted did embark on the 11 Aug 1914 but until I can check more casuality lists I only have him down on the list as a maybe. Again with Stewart he is only a maybe and I can only confirm his MID was dated 17 Feb. 1915. Both Stewart and Basted are on the Worcester Cathedral Roll. If I come across any further information regarding these two I will post it on this site, so a case of watch this space.

Regards

Peter

[peter]

Hi Lars,

I was at RHQ, Norton Barracks on Tuesday and they have informtion on 4852 W. Russell. So if you follow up your inquiry with them I'm sure you will not be disapointed.

Regards

Peter

[beardie]

hi all ,
trying find any information on one of my local lads 8714 pte matthew partridge of the 2nd worcesters. killed 26/9/15

can you tell anything from his number?

typed his number and worcestershire regiment into his mic index and came up with three names!

[Mike Jones]

Evening Lars,
I know you have contacted Worcestershire Archives, Peter and myself were there when the Mail arrived. Have they replied with the good news yet? I looked Williams up in the 1919 enlistment ledgers. You were right he re-enlisted! They have some great information on him. Between 1917 and 1919 he was working as a blacksmith. His first wife died in December 1914. You'll never quess where he was in 1915. Well you will when the archives contact you.
Regards Mike

[LarsA]

Thank's Mike and Peter, you have been most helpful on this and I really appreciate it very much. Congratulations to you and Louis Scully on a very well run forum and best of luck with your research project. If I come across any other collectors having worcesters' 14-stars I'll send them your way. (Think you have got a couple of contacts already)

Havent heard from the regimental archives yet, but I guess I will soon. If curiosity hasn't finished me off by then, that is
Best regards,
Lars