Research Help Please?!

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Research Help Please?!

Postby Redneck » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Good evening...... this is my very first post on your Forum, and I'm sorry that I'm asking for help already.

I am researching the men from my home village (Aldbourne, Wilts) and one of them was a MM winner in 14/Worcs. He was 41011 L/Cpl Frederick William Stacey KIA 27/7/17. Does anyone have anything on him? I do have family details etc, and some details of a letter he wrote home, but I do not have his MM citation or much else. Anything (however insignificant it may seem) would be of a great help to me.

Secondly, I am also studying Charles Herbert Pound who I think enlisted 8/9/14 into 598 boy lab corps (I don't really understand this!) Worcs Regt.
I understand he recieved a GOC (what's this?) Divisional Commendation 20/5/17, but I don't know what for? I also think he was transferred to The Labour Corps but was this due to wounds or illness??

I know it's a lot to ask on my first visit, so I thank you in anticipation.

Cheers Phil
Always looking for WW1 medals/Plaques/SWB's etc to The Wiltshire Regiment
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Postby LarsA » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:49 pm

L/Cpl Staceys MM was gazetted 26/03/1917, the same date as a DCM to L/Cpl Eggleton. Could have been the same action, a few details about this gathered elsewhere on this excellent forum:

While the Divisions of the Fourth Army were gaining ground in the valley of the Somme, the Divisions of the Fifth Army were carrying out similar operations in the valley of the Ancre. The 63rd Division in which was included the 14th (Pioneer) Battalion of the Regiment, took a prominent part in a series of small attacks and advances, and the Pioneers were often under fire.

Operations were begun on the 18th January 1917. The 14th Worcestershire shifted their camp from Usna Hill, where they had lain since the New Year, to a site near Englebelmer. From that camp working parties were sent out daily.

On the 3rd February 1917, the first attack was made. The 63rd Division stormed two lines of the enemy’s trenches north of the Ancre. “D” Company of the 14th Worcestershire, commanded by Captain F. J. Brazier, were sent forward to assist the consolidation of the captured position. When the company reached the captured trenches heavy fighting was still in progress. The enemy were closing in to regain their ground. Parties of the Pioneers were pushed forward to hold the enemy at bay while the ground gained was entrenched. One of those parties, headed by Lance-Corporal J. Eggleton showed great bravery, beating off attack after attack during forty-eight hours of continuous fighting. Casualties were 4 killed, 3 officers (Capt. F. J. Brazier, Lt. J. R. Blake, 2/Lt. L. N. Jotcham) and 14 men wounded. L/Cpl. Eggleton was awarded the D.C.M. and Captain Brazier was subsequently awarded the MC.

The capture of those trenches had a notable effect. At dawn on February 7th patrols reported that the enemy appeared to be evacuating Grandcourt. Battalions of the 63rd Division pushed forward and, after a bickering fight with German snipers, occupied the ruins of the village which had resisted so many attacks. “B” Company of the 14th Worcestershire was sent up, and worked hard under heavy fire among the ruins. One officer was severely wounded (2/Lieut. Gibson).
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Postby Redneck » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:44 pm

Thanks Lars

I think you're spot on, as I have just re-read a copy of his letter sent home, where he describes the 14/Worcs being detailed to storm 2 trenches on 3rd February. He (and 14 other men) only made it to the 1st trench, which they held until the 6th February against a whole German Company! I think L/Cpl Stacey recieved a GSW wound to his arm in the process.

Thanks again
Phil
Always looking for WW1 medals/Plaques/SWB's etc to The Wiltshire Regiment
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Postby LarsA » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:46 pm

Sorry I couldn't help with anything new on Charles Herbert Pound, perhaps someone else here can?

/Lars
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father

Postby CPLCLIVE » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:20 am

Redneck
My father was in the Rifle Brigade and was very seriously wounded on the Somme he on recovery was also posted to the Labour Corps but in Egypt
But it looks as if this must have been the norm when a soldier was wounded badly
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Your research

Postby Mike Jones » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:16 pm

Hello Phil,
sorry to start on a negative note but there is no official list of citations for the Military Medal, for any regiment. There is hope that his brave deed was reported in his local newspaper. There is at this very moment a dedicated man working to collect any such reports in the Worcester Herald. He is also collecting all reports of wounded, missing or Killed. So check out the website for any future updates! It is a strange Regimental number that Stacey has. It was issued to him in France around January 1917. He was probably drafted into the Worcesters after large losses or prior to some new Campaign. Most of the numbers around him were all "Geordies".
Have you PlumPudding the Medal index Card for Charles Herbert Pound? If he left England before 1916, it will have the date and location where he landed. My numbers dont match yours though but then you may have information I dont. He did enlist in the Worcesters early in September 1914. He got the Number 17210, which is a normal "Fighting " number. Statistically he went to the 10th Battalion but the Medal Rolls at Kew will tell you for sure. He may also have a service record that survived. He transferred to the Labour Corps around January of 1918. This was probably due to a wound but sometimes it was due to general health deterioration.
Regards Mike
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Postby Redneck » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:20 am

Mike

Many thanks for your help and observations. With regard to Stacey, I have quite a lot of information on him, which I found in the local newspaper and from local sources (days spent hand reeling through the microfiche!) So to that end, if this fellow who is collating all the Gallantry/Casualty etc information on The Worcesters, wants copies of what I have, he is most welcome, so he can contact me directly if necessary? I have script from a letter he wrote home, family information and addresses, the newspapers MM 'citation' and a report of his mother and fiancee going to Bristol to collect the medal. It's interesting stuff!

My main question on Pound is what the GOC Divisionals Commendation actually is, and what they were usually awarded for? I've never heard of them before, and I don't even know what a GOC is!!

Thanks again Phil
Always looking for WW1 medals/Plaques/SWB's etc to The Wiltshire Regiment
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Postby LarsA » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:24 am

I think it is the divisional General (General Officer Commanding) that has given out commendations for deserving soldiers that did not get an MM. Have seen a reference to these somewhere, but couldn't find it just now.

/Lars

Found it in Winter's "Death's men". even if its in context with a man whos MM was approved. It is in the 58th division and the wording is "Your gallant conduct has been broght to my notice and I take this opportunity of congratulating you on the good service you have rendered to your country."
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Postby LarsA » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:31 pm

Mike and Redneck,
forgive me for another reply, but as Pounds number was 17210 I thought I'd mention that my MM group to R J Washington of the 2nd Worcesters (and probably - no citation - for actions at Croisilles 20-21/5/1917 with a regimental number of 17239.

Best regards,
/Lars
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Research

Postby Mike Jones » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:47 pm

Evening Phil and Lars,
Thank you Phil for the offer of your information on Stacey. Please send it to me though. Our man at the Worcester Herald has enough work for up to two years and is exclusively doing the Herald. I keep a separate file on personal information like this, linked to the mans Data-base entry. My E/mail is mjonesgfc@aol.com. Have you PlumPudding Pound's Medal Index Card? I would like to add these details to his File, please.
Well done Lars, you are coming up with some excellent information and helping some of the people with their enquiries. The Forum needs more people willing to help like you.
Best Regard Mike
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Frederick William Stacey

Postby jane young » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:06 pm

Frederick William Stacey of the 14th Battalion Worcestershire Regiment No. 41011 was my uncle. My father was his youngest brother and born in 1920 was named after him. I am trying to research my family history and would welcome any information on my uncle. I know my uncle was killed 27th July 1917 and that he was recorded as receiving a MM on 26th March 1917.
Jane
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Postby Redneck » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:29 pm

Hi Jane

If you PM me with your email address, I will gladly send you some information!

Cheers Phil
Always looking for WW1 medals/Plaques/SWB's etc to The Wiltshire Regiment
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