Regimental Numbers 1881-1920

[Mike Jones]

Hi John, as you know William Connor enlisted in August 1914, so he was not a Worcester, regular or reserve, prior to this date. Family legend was correct in that he was a reservist but of the South Staffs Regt.. When he enlisted in the Worcesters, the last column of information was headed " Particulars of former service, giving Corps and No". That is where that bit of information about 5852 South Staffs. came from. His brother George Connor was a regular with the Worcesters and enlisted in the first week of May 1908. He was killed on a bad day for the 2nd Bn., 26th Sept 1915. There were 84 men killed that day and only 3 have a known grave, all in different cemeteries! You have probably already looked up where the 2nd Bn. was on that date, I hav'nt. What I did see tho was an entry that said he was killed at Vermelles and by definition , buried there. The 3rd brother Charles, was the lucky one that survived. As you know but may not have understood why, was he joined as Charles Conner. There is a slim chance he joined as a Special Reserve in 1910 but I am sure he joined with his older brother in August 1914. The brothers pulled a trick to try to stay together. Charles changed the O to an E in his surname. To give you a couple of examples, one of the Woolloff brothers became Wolloff, one of the Everritt brothers became Everrett. The Clasp to William's Mons Star was claimed on the 2nd August 1921. I have some more lesser information but I will mail that to you direct. Regards Mike.

[John Connor]

Mike,
Many thanks for the information. Can I ask where you get this from?

So William was in the South Staffs. I presume he would have been a regular at some time previous, do you think any possiblity of having been in Boer War?
Regarding George as he was a regular do you think he would have been at Gheluvelt and with 2nd Bn from when they arrived in France in August?

I have contacted the Red Cross to see if they have any POW records for Charles and will let you know accordingly.

To Finish off the Connor Family History there was a 4th brother, James who also worked for the Birmingham Municiple Gas Co (same as William) so I presume he enlisted the same day as William & Charles. He was killed at 2nd Ypres 25th April 1915 whilst serving as 9695 with the 1st Royal Warwickshire Regt.

So there you have it, from 7 sons in total, 3 dead within the 1st 11 months of the war and one possibly a POW (to be confirmed).

Regarding the "lesser information" please mail it to me ASAP. Many thanks for your information and I hope my family story has been of interest.

John Connor

[Mike Jones]

Hello John, now Christmas is over we can get back to the real world! The information I have comes from literally thousands of hours of looking, checking and most of all recording anything Worcestershire Regiment. Overall, I have little knowledge of any particular Battalion or what actions they fought in. I concentrate on Names, Numbers and enlistments, I do not divert. One database, my son (A serving soldier) and I have been working on for 7 years now. I have set a target of 2010 to finish it. With regard to the Connor military history. William Connor would have been a South Staffs. regular. He would have signed on for either 7 years regular and 5 on reserve or 5 regular and 7 on reserve. Since he was 18 in 1901 he could have been in the Boer War. There are Medal Rolls for this period, so look him up and you will know for sure. Regarding George Connor, I have seen his Medal Roll entry for August 1914. He was with my grandfather when they both landed with the 2nd Bn. in France on 12th August 1914. I am also sure George was there in the 2nd Battalion when they saved the day at Gheluvelt. Hopefully soon there is going to be a Roll published with all the names of those men on it. I will mail you directly with some other information but am much interested in the Prisoner of War lists. So you can help me, please, by finding out where I can get a list of all Worcestershire Prisoners. Regards Mike

[Mike Jones]

Hello Phil,
As I said earlier, keep checking the website as new information comes to light all the time. You asked when Thomas William Birch joined the Worcestershire Regiment. At the time I did not know. I now know he joined the 1/7th Territorial Battalion in June 1913. A Territorial Bn. by definition should have stayed in England but at the outbreak of war, all the men were asked to volunteer to fight abroad. Many refused and remained in the U.K. and lived. Thomas William Birch volunteered to fight abroad and died! What can we say about his decision? Brave, honourable, daring but what a price to pay.
Regards Mike

[sandymae]

Hi Mike,

I don't know whether you are interested in the following information regarding a Worcs soldier for your records, I have been researching Pte Samuel Andrews (see post on this forum), and with Louis help, have gleaned more information for our family archive. We knew that Sam was in the Machine Gun Corp when he was killed at the Battle of Aisne in May 1918, his service No: 140564. He lies at Chambrecy cemetery.

In 1914 he was a Lance Corporal in 5th Battalion Worcs Regt. Service No: 14571.

We have a photograph taken before 1913, it shows Sam wearing a uniform, which gives us the impression that he was soldier before the outbreak of WWI. Sam was born at Sutton Coldfield in 1887.

Regards, Sandra

[Mike Jones]

Hello Sandra,
I am always interested in any Worcester soldier and had been following your posting. Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I can add a little more to your story. Samuel was not a pre-war soldier though, he joined around the 20th of August 1914. Pte. Letts 14570 joined on the 8th August 1914. Samuel was one of the very first to join after war was declared. He was posted to the 5th Battalion but that is and was his training Bn.. The 5th never fought anywhere, except in the pub. When he finished his training in the 5th , he was almost certainly posted to the 2nd Bn.. A fighting Bn., actually my grandfather's Bn.. Have you checked to see if he got the 1915 Star? Even his medal Index card should show when he first went abroad. He left us early in 1918, I arrive at that date from his M.G.C. number, 140564. His luck was running out. He had the mis-fortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. On the 27th May 1918, the Germans launched their Spring offensive, On the Aisne! They had a stunning Victory. It is described in great detail in the regimental history written by Captain Stacke (of the regiment). Besides those killed, the Germans claim they took 45,000 prisoners. The 1st Bn. Worcesters was destroyed. As an aside to that, I am going down to the Aisne in May and had already decided to visit Samuel. I am staying only about 10 miles away from Chambrecy. Will I be there before you?
Best wishes Mike

[sandymae]

Mike
This all just get's better! Thanks for all the information, Sam is beginning to take on a real persona - not just a sepia photograph.

I PlumPudding Sam's medal card. It shows that he was in the Devonshire Regt (30857) before transferring to Worcs Regt, and then in the MGC.

He was awarded the Victory Medal - under the word 'roll' it has MGC/101B88, and under the word 'page it has 6926. In the 'remarks' column it looks like BT + VM retd and then it looks like (undisposed of)
?? in the ?/?.

Also in the 'remarks' it reads.... CRV & 75/B 6 3/23 post/adt

He has a 'ditto' for the British Medal, and 15 Star M (?) RG 11C2, page 1365.

Theatre of War first served in (2 B), date of entry therein 9/9/15, and in the far right corner ...7849/adt.

Phew! that took some deciphering, and I'm not sure its accurate.

Anyway, onto the photo I have. It definately shows Sam in uniform and was taken before his father died in Sept 1910 - maybe he had just joined the Devons.

And as for visiting him, how lovely it would be for you to find him Mike, you will be there just before us. He lies in V.111 B.5. My hubby and I are going to France in June - intending to stay for a month (camping), so that we can go to the places where his father fought.

Loved your comment about fighting in the pub, nothing changes!

Regards, Sandra

[Mike Jones]

Morning Sandra,
Well done, you have breathed life into a sepia photo, Samuel now looks back at you as a man with persona. All is not clear with regard to his military career though and does need more research. With his Worcesters number 14571 he did not join before August 1914. I have since yesterday done a little more checking and he left the Worcesters with 7 other men and joined the Devons. Their numbers ran from 30851 to 30858, further research would put a date on this transfer. Early in 1918 he joined the Machine Gun Corps with 38 other soldiers from the Devonshires. Their numbers ran from 140528 through to 140566. Then we have his Medal Card. I dont have a full understanding of them, unfortunately. His Victory and War medals were authorised by the M.G.C.. What I am sure of , is they were returned, hence the Ret/d, in remarks column. The other letters in that column probably say what happened to them. The 1915 Star was authorised by another regiment, RG 11C2 page 1365, this is probably the Devons. If the Worcesters authorised the 1915 Star it would be L5C Page.....The best course of action would be to put an image of the medal card on the Great War Forum. That way I could have an image for my records and their experts could decipher it for you. Tell them what you think you know and ask if its correct and can they add anything. That should spur them on!
Best wishes Mike

[Martin Newman]

Well done Mike its nice to read how you Scully,and others are keeping the Worcesters Memories alive with your dedication. we are proud of you and what you are doing to help inform others.

All the best,

Martin.

[philbirch]

Mike

Thanks for taking the trouble to find out more about my Great Uncle. We are going over to France to visit him on 1st April - the 90th anniversary of his death. I'm delighted to have these extra snippets of information which actually reveals a great deal about the man.

Thanks

Phil

[Mike]

Hi Mike,
I am researching my Grandfather and his pal. I believe they both joined up at the start of the war JAMES OLIVER YEATES pte. 15662 and JAMES (JIM) EDWARD GROVES pte. 15656. Both 10th Worcesters, Yeates won the MM near Cambrai 1917. He became a battalion and brigade runner. Jim was killed 22/11/1915. I hope this helps your research.
Mike Lowther

[hilsel]

Hi Mike, I hope you can help me I am looking for information on my Grandfather,Private Henry Mcdonald 21806, he was killed in Action on 6 August 1915, in Gallipoli, he was in the 4th battalion Worcestershire Regiment. If you can help me find out when and where he enlisted,also he was 44 when he was killed. I don't understand why he was in the Worcestershire Regiment when he was born in Wolverhampton, I would have thought he would have been in the Staffs Regiment. Any information would be helpful. Also looking at the 1901 Census it shows me that Henry was a soldier, is it possible that he was in the Boer War. Regards Hilary

[Mike Jones]

Hi Hilsel,
I say this to make things clear for anyone who would like my help. I have no connection with this website and come here as a guest to increase my own knowledge. Where I can help and have the time to do it, I will (It takes about 3 hours to check a soldier out) BUT, and here is the bit I will try to put politely. I want to know who I am talking to and a general location for them. I know you come from Staffordshire, thats enough for location but Hilsel, I cant relate to. The Queen and my mum have wild cards but no one else. If you would like to edit your enquiry and sign it Tom, John, Harry or Joan. I am sure I will be able to answer most of your questions . Well, when my computer is up and running again, I am on my daughters till mine is fixed!
Regards Mike Jones

24th August 2007 P.S. I have edited out a bit of my own posting. There was a bit about Medal collectors, which I have now found to be wrong. Some of the best help and most interest , has come from Medal Collectors!

[Mike Jones]

Hi Hilary,
thank you for that. Lots to tell you. Your grandfather enlisted in Wolverhampton on or around the 15th March 1915. He declared himself to have been born in Wolverhampton and he gave an address in Wolverhampton. If he was a soldier in 1901 he may well have been in the Boer war. There are Boer War medal Rolls and he will be listed on them if he was there. It will not be with the number 21806 though. Contact Regimental Archives at Norton Barracks, I know for sure they have a dedicated man (John Barker) working hard on those very Rolls now!
With regard to why he joined the Worcestershire Regiment, rather than a Staffordshire Regiment. To me it is a sign of a man who wanted a bit more than the usual. He knew Wolverhampton, the pubs, train station, etc.. He wanted to see new things, new challenges. I have not Data-based the 4th Battalion yet, I hope to start in June and finish it by Christmas. So dont forget the website, come back regularly to check for any update. I have however exhaustively done the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Worcestershire Battalions and they ALL show the same ratio of Staffordshire men. Of the 3rd Bn. casualties, 11.5% of them were born in Staffs., 10.38% were still living in Staffs. when they enlisted. Just under 2% were born in Wolverhampton and were still living there at the time of enlistment.
The day of Henry's death, 6th August 1915, is a true disaster for the 4th Bn. and I intend to research it some more in the future, you have brought it to my attention. It could be the worst day in the war for the Worcesters. The 4th Bn. had 357 men killed at least! With the usual ratio of 4 men injured for each man dead, I cant think any one was left standing. Sadder still is that only 10 of those men have known grave, 9 in Twelve Tree Copse Cemetery. So if there are lots of "Unknowns" in Twelve Tree Copse, then perhaps Henry is there. If you want to dig deeper there is more you can learn. Best wishes Mike.

[hilsel]

Thanks Mike for the information, I don't know much about my Grand Father as my Father was only three when his father died, I still don't understand why a man of 44 would enlist. I only found out recently that henry was killed in action in Gallipoli, I have a copy of the Helles Memorial which gives his name and address and age. Regards Hilary