Regimental Numbers 1881-1920

Post information here about individual army numbers or post a query about an individual and his army number.

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Postby SimonW » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:19 pm

Hello Mike,

I’m trying to find out more about my Granddad’s brother Alwyne Willitts (242438) who was with the 1/8th when killed on 16 August 1917. From his medal Index Card he appears to have been in another Worcestershire battalion previously as he has another number. Unfortunately the card has been copied with the far right hand side missing and has cut off what could be the last digit of a possible 6 digit number. The five digits shown are 20395. Previous to that he was in the Worcester Yeomanry (2881). It’s possible he could have moved to the Worcestershires when the Yeomanry reorganised in early 1916.

I wondered if you could throw some light on the 20395 (+) number?

Simon W
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Numbers

Postby Mike Jones » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:58 pm

Evening Simon,
a straight numbers question, the love of my sad life! Your Grand-uncles number was 20395, there is nothing incomplete about it! The National Archives in the last few years paid some "workers" to transcribe the original Medal Rolls onto some Medal Index cards. What you pay £3-50 for is to look at the Index card. You would have to go to Kew to see the original entry. Some of the transcribers were just not interested in the work and the result is the entry for your relative. There are thousands of errors, ommissions etc.. Alwyne was in the Worcester Yeomanry 2881 , in December 1914 he joined the 1/8th Battalion as 20395. In 1916 the whole Battalion got re-numbered and he got 242438. I shall give you some more examples, look them up on the National archives. 20390 became 242433; 20391 = 242434; 20392 = 242435;
20393 = 242436; 20394 = 242437; 20395 = 242438 (You know this man);
20396 = 242439.
Alwyne must have been good mates with 20396, William R Yardley. William was 2654 in the Worcestershire Yeomanry, transferred with Alwyne in 1914 and they were still together when they got re-numbered again! Hope this helps.
Regards Mike
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Postby SimonW » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:21 pm

Mike,

Thank you for the information. I wasn't sure about the number of digits in Alwyne's number as the copy of his index card that I down loaded had cut off the last digit of his final 6 digit number and it looked like it might have done the same for 20395. Interesting about his possible mate William R Yardley, something to look into I think. It looks like he survived the war, unlike Alwyne, who I believe took a direct hit from enemy artilliary when well behind the front line.
Now I have your information, I can trace the movements of the 1/8th whilst he was with them.

Regards

Simon
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Charles Connor

Postby John Connor » Thu May 10, 2007 8:48 pm

Mike,
I have had a reply from the International Committee of the Red Cross! Good News!
As Follows:
Name, CONNOR Charles
DOB, 2.9.1894
POB, Birmingham
Rank, Private
Unit, 1 Worcesters Comp B
Service Number, 9121
Date & Place of Capture, 25.3.18 Peronne or St Quentin
Places of Internment, present in the camp of Darmstadt coming from Lazaret Piennes according to list dated 5.6.18 - transferred to Camp of Sagan according to list dated 12.6.18 - transferred to camp of Heilsburg according to list dated 7.9.18
Liberration/Repatriation, no information
From, 3 lists from the German Authorities.

How about that? Mystery solved! Almost, any ideas when he would have arrived in France, I think it was 1915 and what how did he survive the next three years when three of his brothers died?

If you wish I'll scan the paper and email it to you, let me know.

Can any body tell me what happened to 1st Worcesters 25.3.1918?

Best wishes,

John
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A/Sgt Rudman WC

Postby ElaineClarke » Wed May 16, 2007 7:27 pm

I recently came across paperwork and a medal for my grandfather William Charles Rudman Born: 9/2/1895, Died 6/9/1970. Sadly I do not remember him at all as I was only three years old when he died but I would like to find out more information to be able to pass on to my children.

Here are the details from his discharge note
Regimental Number: 16125
Rank: A/Sgt
Enlisted:8 Sept 1914
Discharged: 21st May 1919
Unit: 11th Battalion Royal Worcs

Good luck with your database.

Regards
Elaine
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Charles Connor

Postby allanp » Thu May 17, 2007 8:13 pm

Hi John
According to The Worcester Regiment in the Great War.

“On the 24th March 1918 the 1st Battalion withdrew from Pargny to positions on the heights behind Epenancourt. There was heavy fighting to the southwest of these positions and at first light (25th March) they withdrew through Licourt to Marchelpot. Finally rejoining the Brigade at Misery”

Regards Allan
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Prisoner of War

Postby Mike Jones » Thu May 17, 2007 11:06 pm

Hi John,
that is an exciting result. I must admit, I did not think you would get any information from this line of enquiry. You have quite a bit of Charles path through the war now. Without a doubt it would be a good book to read but like almost all men involved in the war, the details remained locked in his head. Buried deeply, probably to keep him sane. That must have been a scary time when he was taken prisoner. I would dearly like to have a copy of what the Red Cross sent you, please. I have never seen such documents, if you could e/mail them direct to me, thanks. I will try to e/mail a few pages of Stacke that covers this period. Also I will look up to see if anyone died on the day of Charles capture. With regard to when he went to France, have you got his medal card? If he got the 1914/15 Star, it will have a date. I have been having more computer trouble lately and I am off to France Tomorrow, so I will be quite for a couple of weeks.
Many thanks Mike
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Regimental numbering

Postby mickeys03 » Sun May 20, 2007 9:21 pm

Frederick Westwood Pte 10578 9th batt, 13 division killed in action 5th april 1916 how and why was his number changed to 20918 this is shown on army form B 104-82
It seems from his letters home which i still have that the Regiment joined up with the British Mediterranean Exp;Force some time late 1915 i hope you can help with this.


Regards K. Sandbrook Worcester
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Pte. Frederick westwood

Postby Mike Jones » Sun May 27, 2007 9:08 am

Hello Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss K. Sandbrook,
I have spent 3 hours checking on Frederick and sorted most of it out now. If you would like to E/mail the form B 104-82 to me and clear up what the K. stands for in your name. As stated before, I like to know who I am talking to. That done I will finish my research on Frederick and post you the results. You can get my e/mail address from the members list. For those who dont know and are interested, form B 104-82 is the dreaded official notification that your son/husband has become a casualty in the Great War.
Regards Mike
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Frederick Westwood

Postby Mike Jones » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:53 am

Hello Kelvin,
Thank you for sending me the form. To avoid clogging up the Forum, Kelvin and I have been e/mailing each other directly. It turns out the Regimental number Frederick was using for mail, etc. was 15078 and not 10578. Yet he is buried with the number 20918. The short answer to when and why his number changed is, I have no idea, sorry Kelvin! I am interested and will search for the answer but it may take time. Many men changed their numbers for various reasons but I have never seen a change such as this. According to the Medal Rolls 15078 was not issued. Which is very unlikely. It would have gone out in August 1914. The number 20918 was issued in December1914/January 1915. A gap of 5/6 months. What is the date of the 1st letter you have Kelvin, please? There are other lines of enquiry you could follow.
1. Contact the Official Researchers at Norton barracks, to see if they know any more. There is a link to them from the home page of this website. All the men are volunteers and very helpfull.
2. Have you tried for his Army service record? If it exists (30% chance) all will be revealed.
3. You have already ( I hope) down loaded his Medal Index Card. If you hav'nt it costs £3.50. The Medal Index Card only really indicates what medals he got and that a full entry exists at Kew. Now the full entry at Kew may also reveal the answers that you want.
Happy hunting Mike
P.S. If you find out any more about Fred before I do, please let me know.
Mike Jones
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Frederick Westwood Pte, 15078 (20918)

Postby mickeys03 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:57 pm

Hello Mike.
thanks for your time. The first letter home was not from Fred but the landlord where he was staying in Basingstoke on Feb 16th 1915 and quote had been here for some three weeks. This was a letter to Fred's grandmother who was anxious about him; The letter continues " I am afraid he has gone to far now in the army to be released from his obligation to serve his country"
The next time we hear from Fred is 14th October 1915 with the 5th Worcester Reg: at Millbrook? Plymouth.
Fred was born in 1897 so was just 18 years old never been outside Halesowen,Hasbury area since birth.

Kelvin Sandbrook
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1914 Star Medal, Help needed, please.

Postby Mike Jones » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:37 am

Morning Everyone,
I am in desperate need of some reference numbers for the award of the 1914 Star to Worcestershire Regiment soldiers, please. Assuming that you have one, what I need are the numbers on the Medal Index Card (MIC). For those not sure what I mean, look on the Medal Index Card. In the middle, left hand side of the card is a section headed "Medal". If, in that section it notes the man was awarded "14Star". Please look in the next Column headed "Roll". There is the bit of information I need, please! The number will begin L/ ***. The next column is the page number within the Roll, I would like that as well.
Many thanks in anticipation Mike Jones
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Postby John Connor » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:16 pm

Mike,
I have emailed you a copy of WH Connors medal card.
I hope this helps.
John
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